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  #1  
Old 01-31-2012
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Where to put crossover(components)

I have a 2011 Ranger XL.Not my first Ranger but the first without door pockets.It also came without a CD player which is what I wanted but I never thought about no door pockets.This is my problem.I ordered and installed a Sony HU and Polk db57??.I chose these speakers because they have a built in crossover and I wouldn't have to run the wire,cut a hole for the tweeter and find a suitable place for the crosovers.
Well I blew one of the speakers already with the 17 x 4 RMS HU.I want to install components but I cant figure out where to put the crossovers.
Any advice? All replies will be much appreciated.




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Old 01-31-2012
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i put my crossovers in the back behind the jumper seats. (i have the 2 door ext cab so thers a nice hiding place behind the seats)
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Old 01-31-2012
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Originally Posted by Kris03 View Post
i put my crossovers in the back behind the jumper seats. (i have the 2 door ext cab so thers a nice hiding place behind the seats)
Yeah,if I had an extended cab that would change my plans more than just the crossovers......oh the possibilities.
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Old 01-31-2012
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oh its not an extended cab...haha my bad. i should read more-the next spot i had them in was the glove box.
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Old 02-01-2012
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How hard is it to put them in the glove box?Did you remove the whole dash? or were you able to run all the wires without doing it?
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Old 02-01-2012
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When I had passive crossovers I had them under my dash by the kick panels. I pulled the carpet back and just tucked them in behind it. It was only temporary until i went active.

The glove box just pops right out when you push the sides in.. there is plenty of room to fish wires in behind it. you could probably even mount the crossovers behind the glove box to save storage space. just dont drill into anything back there unless you know whats what.

One tip I have is to switch the polarity of the speaker wires going to the driver side midrange (after the crossover). this will fix the acoustic cancellation that happens in our ranger when mounting mids in the factory door locations.
Another tip is get at least a small amp for the components and use the highpass crossover to prevent the low bass from reaching the speakers. your headunit may also have highpass crossovers that you could use. I would recommend the amp though due to the nature of passive crossovers, they tend to block some of the power from reaching the mids and you end up having more high notes than mid bass.
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Old 02-01-2012
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Don’t you want the Crossover network close to the speakers and the same distance from each set of speakers, as in wire length ?
I am not an audiophile but it seems equal lengths of wire will create the same resistance in each side so things will be balanced electrically.

Can’t you mount the crossovers in the door cavity ?

I will be installing mine soon (Std Cab EDGE) and am not sure where to put the Crossover Units, was thinking in the lower pocket of the door panel or the Kick Panel but keep chg’g my mind. Just going to keep every wire from side to side the same length from the amp and use oversized low resistance wire (12 ga).

Also, RangOH,
“Highpass vs Lowpass" and "Switching Polarity" not sure about that stuff… what’s that about ?
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Old 02-01-2012
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Originally Posted by Scrambler82 View Post
Can’t you mount the crossovers in the door cavity ?
You really shouldnt only because the moisture can corrode the connections on the crossover board.

Quote:
Just going to keep every wire from side to side the same length from the amp and use oversized low resistance wire (12 ga).
12 awg will really be overkill. i have 14awg and im running 150w to each speaker. the resistance in the wire doesnt really affect it. you can have different lengths if you desire. however if they too extreme it can affect the timing of when the signal reaches the speaker. the only time your considering wire length and size and when you know how much watts your running to that speaker. thats why subwoofers usually have larger diameter wires because there running a lot more power (watts)

Quote:
Also, RangOH,
“Highpass vs Lowpass" and "Switching Polarity" not sure about that stuff… what’s that about ?
high pass is a filter that cuts off all the low frequencies(you can adjust how low or high to set this. Usually headunits have a high pass filter setting but all amplifiers should have one and they might have a low pass filter as well) its measured in hz. the starting point for most speakers is usually 80hz but i have mine on 100hz. so this means all frequencies below 100hz are cut off and not played. the low bass can damage the speaker. this is how blowouts happen. and the opposite is true for the lowpass filter. it cuts out the high frequencies. you will not use this unless you have a subwoofer in your car. then you have slopes. which again you probably wont use. most amplifiers don't let you adjust this. its usually in 12db or 24db. this is how aggressive you want to cut off the frequencies. so i you have a high pass filter thats on 80hz lets say. some 70hz frequencies may get through if you have your slope set to 12db. If you switch it to 24db its more aggressive and less 'bass' gets through.

as for polarity. i have my tweeters that are in the doors reversed. because i have 4 tweeters upfront it makes for a harsh environment. the highs can fight each other and cause listener fatigue. if you reverse the polarity, which means to take the positive and switch it with the negative on the speaker posts, they will cancel each other out and make for a smoother frequency. I have a hard time explaining this. when i was taught the trick i didnt really fully understand what the guy meant but i didnt argue, i just went out changed the polarity on the tweeter from the crossover and found that the highs are a little smoother for me. its all preference.

Last edited by Kris03; 02-01-2012 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 02-01-2012
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aluminator , Sorry for the Hijack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris03 View Post
You really shouldnt only because the moisture can corrode the connections on the crossover board.


12 awg will really be overkill. i have 14awg and im running 150w to each speaker. the resistance in the wire doesnt really affect it. you can have different lengths if you desire. however if they too extreme it can affect the timing of when the signal reaches the speaker. the only time your considering wire length and size and when you know how much watts your running to that speaker. thats why subwoofers usually have larger diameter wires because there running a lot more power (watts)
That’s me, Mr OverKill… 10 ga wire on 55 100 watt lights, 12 ga wire where 14 is needed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris03 View Post
high pass is a filter that cuts off all the low frequencies(you can adjust how low or high to set this. Usually headunits have a high pass filter setting but all amplifiers should have one and they might have a low pass filter as well) its measured in hz. the starting point for most speakers is usually 80hz but i have mine on 100hz. so this means all frequencies below 100hz are cut off and not played. the low bass can damage the speaker. this is how blowouts happen. and the opposite is true for the lowpass filter. it cuts out the high frequencies. you will not use this unless you have a subwoofer in your car. then you have slopes. which again you probably wont use. most amplifiers don't let you adjust this. its usually in 12db or 24db. this is how aggressive you want to cut off the frequencies. so i you have a high pass filter thats on 80hz lets say. some 70hz frequencies may get through if you have your slope set to 12db. If you switch it to 24db its more aggressive and less 'bass' gets through.
Is this stuff explained in the stereo/amp manuals ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris03 View Post
as for polarity. i have my tweeters that are in the doors reversed. because i have 4 tweeters upfront it makes for a harsh environment. the highs can fight each other and cause listener fatigue. if you reverse the polarity, which means to take the positive and switch it with the negative on the speaker posts, they will cancel each other out and make for a smoother frequency.
Is the polarity thing a biggy for the average guy listening to an aftermarket stereo, component frt, amp, a small sub and wanting just decent music sounds ?

I may contact you when I get to the stereo install in my truck, thks...
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  #10  
Old 02-01-2012
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no. i only did it because i have alot of tweeters pointing at my face. i dont think youll need to do it.
how many watts are you doing to each speaker? or is the amp for the sub?

the manual should have this kind of stuff in it. i know mine talked briefly about each item.

haha and no problem at all...i used to spend alooott of my time and money on my stereo so ive picked up some things along the way.

-10awg on 55watt wires haha. i guess you can always add on then haha
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Old 02-01-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris03 View Post
no. i only did it because i have alot of tweeters pointing at my face. i dont think youll need to do it.
how many watts are you doing to each speaker? or is the amp for the sub?

the manual should have this kind of stuff in it. i know mine talked briefly about each item.

haha and no problem at all...i used to spend alooott of my time and money on my stereo so ive picked up some things along the way.

-10awg on 55watt wires haha. i guess you can always add on then haha
I do like todo overkill.
The amp for the component speakers in front has 75-80 watts per speaker and the sub well that’s not even purchased yet, looking at one 10” with a separate amp for it, cntrd on the rear of the cab.
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Old 02-01-2012
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Originally Posted by Scrambler82 View Post
I do like todo overkill.
The amp for the component speakers in front has 75-80 watts per speaker and the sub well that’s not even purchased yet, looking at one 10” with a separate amp for it, cntrd on the rear of the cab.
75 to 80 per speaker is good-depending on the amplifier-youll like that.
but i definitely recommend getting a sub-and im not a big bass guy-i just like to to fil in the sounds that the full range speakers really arent meant for.
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Old 02-01-2012
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Is there room to mount it under the window switches?
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  #14  
Old 02-01-2012
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Polarity
When dealing with speaker input there is no polarity. A speaker coil doesn't care which way the current comes from , just like a light bulb.It works either way.
When you reverse the leads to a speaker , it only sounds different because you want it to.
My mother was a worker in a speaker factory for many years , as was my sister, who was also a tester.
As explained to me by both of them , it didn't matter which way the feed was hooked up as long as the microphones receiving the sound from the speakers during the test caught the right frequency response without flutter or distortion.
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Old 02-01-2012
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Hey thanks guys for the info.I have had stereos in the past but I always went for quantity over quality.For example my Mustang has 2 Kicker L7s with 2 ZX 500 amps but with the factory door and dash speakers.For my new Ranger(DD) I want a crisp and clean sounding set up with a small sealed sub.My plans are to build my box or have one built(can't find one that I won't have to scoot my seat up with)19"W x 11 1/2"H x 8"D1 and 4"D2.This will leave enough room to mount a single 4channel amp beside it.I will use 2 channels for the components and the other 2 channels for the 10" sub.I'm guessing this will work.
Also thanks for the advice about using at least a small amp for utilization of the high pass filter to keep the lows from blowing my components.I'm pretty sure now that's what blew my last set.I turned the bass down on the HU but they were still producing low sounds.

Another question.I called Crutchfield to get my money back for the Polk db's.The guy told me the speakers need at least 20 hours of break in time.Is this true?My commute is only 20 minutes a day(round trip).It would take me three months to break them in.Which is the same length of time the warranty expires.

Since I've got some replies on this subject.I have yet ANOTHER question.My XL doesn't have carpet.Is there any route to run the amp cables to the HU that won't be visible.

Again thanks.
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Old 02-01-2012
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Break in time for a speaker ?
You gotta be kidding me.
That guy sounds like he could be a politician.
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  #17  
Old 02-02-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerranger262 View Post
Is there room to mount it under the window switches?

That's a thought !

There should be room.
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  #18  
Old 02-02-2012
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Quote:
Polarity
When dealing with speaker input there is no polarity. A speaker coil doesn't care which way the current comes from , just like a light bulb.It works either way.
When you reverse the leads to a speaker , it only sounds different because you want it to.
My mother was a worker in a speaker factory for many years , as was my sister, who was also a tester.
As explained to me by both of them , it didn't matter which way the feed was hooked up as long as the microphones receiving the sound from the speakers during the test caught the right frequency response without flutter or distortion.
Polarity or "phase" as its called in the audio world is a very real thing, yes a speaker will play either way but when you have two or more speakers phasing becomes an issue.
For instance you have two subs playing side by side, if you were to have the polarity switched on only one of the subs they would end up canceling out a good portion of what the other sub would output. In fact this is the main concept behind noise canceling headphones..

In the case of the door speakers I found that switching the phase or polarity of the drivers side will help to pull the midbass to the drivers side and very much improved the midbass response. this also improved the sound stage for the driver. I've done multiple blind tests of switching the polarity.(i suggest everyone do the same to find out whats best for your setup) and I've found that the mids did benefit from having the driverside mid reversed. I also did a blind test on my tweeters and i found that having the same polarity on both was best for my setup other setups will differ depending on the location of the speakers. for example two speakers side by side will be best wired in phase with each other, but two speakers facing each other will benefit from the phase being reversed on one or the other depending on where you are in relation to the speakers.

In phase, both speakers push in or out at the same time
out of phase, one speaker pushes while the other one will pull.
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Old 02-02-2012
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Quote:
12 awg will really be overkill. i have 14awg and im running 150w to each speaker. the resistance in the wire doesnt really affect it. you can have different lengths if you desire. however if they too extreme it can affect the timing of when the signal reaches the speaker. the only time your considering wire length and size and when you know how much watts your running to that speaker. thats why subwoofers usually have larger diameter wires because there running a lot more power (watts)
agreed.

Quote:
Is this stuff explained in the stereo/amp manuals ?
yes in many cases when the features are available on the unit. check out http://www.bcae1.com/ for all of this an more. a great reference site.

Quote:
Is the polarity thing a biggy for the average guy listening to an aftermarket stereo, component frt, amp, a small sub and wanting just decent music sounds ?
I would say yes, its a easy to do and can yield better results for free.
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Old 02-02-2012
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Is the polarity thing a biggy for the average guy listening to an aftermarket stereo, component frt, amp, a small sub and wanting just decent music sounds ?

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Originally Posted by RangOH View Post
I would say yes, its a easy to do and can yield better results for free.
So what you are saying is this:

+ to + on the passenger but + to - on the drivers side but just on the mid speaker.

What if… the 6.5” is facing towards the driver some and the tweeter is mounted on the top of the door or the Dash, then + to + and - to - on both side… ?

Thks, I think I’ve got it and I will try out both methods and see where it goes.

Now I still need to clean the garage.
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Old 02-02-2012
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Originally Posted by Scrambler82 View Post
That's a thought !

There should be room.
The reason I mentioned it, is because it is a perfect spot on the f-150's. I know the switch panels are way different, but I think it's a possibility to squeeze one in the Ranger door.
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  #22  
Old 02-06-2012
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My cross overs are inside the door, at the bottom, back towards the rear of the door vent.
I had questionable thoughts about moisture too but they've been fine.
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Old 02-06-2012
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Thanks guys.I did find a a place in the door after all.For now I put another set of the Polk db57.I'm going to switch them to the Mustang in a couple weeks and get a good set of components for the Ranger if I can find a spot for the tweeters.
There doesn't seem to be enough space between the door panel and the metal part of the door.I really don't want to surface mount them.I would rather have them flush mounted.

Does anyone have any pictures of flush mounted tweeters in a Ranger?I would even consider the A pillar if necessary.
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Old 02-06-2012
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My tweeters are mounted next to the speaker, inside the door, just enough room to get them to face the door panel speaker cut outs.

I would have liked them up higher on the pillars closer to ear level, but it made wiring easier and made them invisible unless you look for them behind the door trim grill.
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Old 02-06-2012
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Quote:
My tweeters are mounted next to the speaker, inside the door, just enough room to get them to face the door panel speaker cut outs.
this is actually a good thing. Unless you are biamped and have time alignment controls then its best practice to keep the tweeter and mid close together for best sound.

Quote:
Does anyone have any pictures of flush mounted tweeters in a Ranger?I would even consider the A pillar if necessary.
there is a semi flat surface in front of the door handle area that makes a good candidate for flush mounting, or if you have power windows, the area where the manual window crank would go is a good spot too, some find that the kick panels are a good spot for them especially for overly bright tweeters. Its a good idea to keep them away from the windows to avoid nasty reflections if you can, but that's where I have mine but i also have a dsp that helps to fix some of the problems associated with that.

The location of the tweeters is ideally found by testing them in every location your thinking of putting them.

Quote:
What if… the 6.5” is facing towards the driver some and the tweeter is mounted on the top of the door or the Dash, then + to + and - to - on both side… ?

Thks, I think I’ve got it and I will try out both methods and see where it goes.
Scrambler here is a guide to doing what i was talking about... http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...sy-cmusic.html
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