anyone elses efan suck? - Page 2 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


Drivetrain Tech General discussion of drivetrain for the Ford Ranger.

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  #26  
Old 08-03-2006
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The only thing I can think of is maybe the electric fan isn't quite enough so like I said before that even though the refrig. process has totally stopped with the fan continuosly running it still removes heat from the overheated condensor which would only help for a few short seconds when the refrig. process restarts.

Rick
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  #27  
Old 08-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RHuckster
The only thing I can think of is maybe the electric fan isn't quite enough so like I said before that even though the refrig. process has totally stopped with the fan continuosly running it still removes heat from the overheated condensor which would only help for a few short seconds when the refrig. process restarts.

Rick
even thought the cooling process has stopped, the condinsor will still be hot and need air movement over it. that is why the fan should be on at all times when the a/c is on......hence attaching to the purple wire.......if you dont want the fan on put an interruptor switch in the green wire that will open the contact....when it is closed and the a/c is on, the fan will get power...
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  #28  
Old 08-03-2006
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I didn't say all but the ones I've dealt with including older Subs(70's-early 80's) & my current mitsu. has 2 fans, the 2nd fan for a/c goes on & off per the compressor. How would an electric fan have any impact on the A/C process if the compressor isn't running???

Rick
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  #29  
Old 08-03-2006
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OK,why would the condensor need air movement over it with the compressor off?

Rick
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  #30  
Old 08-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RHuckster
I didn't say all but the ones I've dealt with including older Subs(70's-early 80's) & my current mitsu. has 2 fans, the 2nd fan for a/c goes on & off per the compressor. How would an electric fan have any impact on the A/C process if the compressor isn't running???

Rick
the condensor would need air to cool it......doesn't matter if the "cooling process" is stoped or not, it is still hot and the freon is a vapor and still has to be converted into a liquid so when the "cooling process" starts again, it will be ready...........my Subaru has 2 fans also.........the second smaller fan is on ALL the time, even when the a/c clutch isn't running......most a/c clutches only are off for short periods of times when the a/c is on anyway, why would you want your fan cycling on and off like that,.....that would be awfully hard on the fan...
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  #31  
Old 08-03-2006
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i love my new e-fan......i have seen good gains from it, my a/c is colder, my truck runs better, the e-fan works flawlessly, and my tranny temp is cooler and i can really control the tranny temp with the fan.....
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  #32  
Old 08-03-2006
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I'll tell you what, the very little effect on cooling the condensor down when the refrig. cycle stops will only be felt MAYBE on the restart of the process & it would only be a few short seconds @ most. I bet your wrong on your Sub, 1 fan runs off of coolant temp. & 1 runs when the comp. runs like the older subaru's did & like my mitsu. & my wifes car.
Hows about taking some refrig. class's before arguing with a Journeyman HVAC tech.

Rick
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  #33  
Old 08-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RHuckster
I'll tell you what, the very little effect on cooling the condensor down when the refrig. cycle stops will only be felt MAYBE on the restart of the process & it would only be a few short seconds @ most. I bet your wrong on your Sub, 1 fan runs off of coolant temp. & 1 runs when the comp. runs like the older subaru's did & like my mitsu. & my wifes car.
Hows about taking some refrig. class's before arguing with a Journeyman HVAC tech.

Rick
just because i am not a professional HVAC guy or whatever, and i highly doubt that i have to be to know what i am saying, i know what i am talking about and how my vehicles work.........i hate to tell you but you are a real problem on this site....you come on here and dog everyone who may be younger than you or not have all the qualifications on paper that you do...............I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT MY SUBARU FAN RUNS CONSTANTLY WHEN THE A/C IS ON. NOW IF YOU WANT TO DRIVE TO INDIANA AND TRY TO PROVE M WRONG ON MY CAR DRIVE YOUR HAPPY *** HERE AND TRY. i do all the work on my vehicles, i know them inside and out and how they operate. i am sorry that you are an as*. WHO GIVES A FLYING F*** THAT YOU ARE A JOURNEYMAN HVAC GUY! if you are a journeyman hvac guy then you work in building hvac work, not in the vehicle field.
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  #34  
Old 08-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RHuckster
I'll tell you what, the very little effect on cooling the condensor down when the refrig. cycle stops will only be felt MAYBE on the restart of the process & it would only be a few short seconds @ most. I bet your wrong on your Sub, 1 fan runs off of coolant temp. & 1 runs when the comp. runs like the older subaru's did & like my mitsu. & my wifes car.
Hows about taking some refrig. class's before arguing with a Journeyman HVAC tech.

Rick
HAHAHA not to burst your bubble but after working for two out of the three big three auto manufacturers each vehicle we have with an electric fan come on and STAY on with the A/C on. Why would you want to turn off the fan and then turn it back on to surge the electrical system. Ever think about that. Maybe some of the foriegn goops turn it off but none of the cars I have ever worked on. This is not meant to start a debate anymore than what has started just need to have a open perspective to things and not just a few cars.
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  #35  
Old 08-03-2006
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Heres where liquid to gas theory goes all to hell & is why before you start arguing you might want to understand the process. The condensor is on the high pressure side of the A/C compressor & is already a liquid, it comes into the compressor as a gas & once it gets compressed then leaves as a liquid. It then goes through the condensor, receiver & into the evap. where it goes through an expansion valve which then drops to the low pressure & it flashes to a gas & the drop from a high press. to a low press. is where the refrig. gets cold, then continues its journey through the evap. coils & then back to the low side of the Compressor.

Rick
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  #36  
Old 08-03-2006
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Thats funny but my Mitsu Eclipse is Chrysler & its a fact the fan goes on & off with the comp. The reason I know this is I am getting ready to install my EFan & I wanted to see how mine & my wifes car worked & guess what, my wifes is a chevy.

Rick
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  #37  
Old 08-03-2006
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You said it Mitsu Eclipse, that is not a chrysler product, just badged that way. Dude just stop arguing this you are not going to win.
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  #38  
Old 08-03-2006
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If you had read 1 of my 1st posts I was a Auto line mech on Subaru's from the 70's to the early 80's, & was an HVAC mech until a few years ago & am a manager now. The Refig. process is the same.
I only argue when someone starts telling people fiction & not fact. The reason for this board & the other 15 or 20 I'm a member of is to pass on factual info helpful to the person reading it not a fairy tale.

Rick
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  #39  
Old 08-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RHuckster
If you had read 1 of my 1st posts I was a Auto line mech on Subaru's from the 70's to the early 80's, & was an HVAC mech until a few years ago & am a manager now. The Refig. process is the same.
I only argue when someone starts telling people fiction & not fact. The reason for this board & the other 15 or 20 I'm a member of is to pass on factual info helpful to the person reading it not a fairy tale.

Rick
Your post about the refrigerant process is correct and I am not talking about that. On the home A/C units does the fan shut off?????? NO it does not. The fan on most MODERN day vehicles stays on even with the compressor off, its still dropping the pressure and cooling the condensor for the next time the compressor comes on. I deal with this on a daily basis with guys that dont know how the systems work. I also KNOW what I am talking about.
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  #40  
Old 08-04-2006
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It doesn't really matter if you are a highly skilled HVAC tech or the one who invented refridgeration in the first place. It still doesn't change the fact that the AC works better and remains cooler with the fan on all the time and not cycling with the compressor. It is like standing outside in the rain and saying "Rain wasn't in the forcast so it is not raining right now."

You are correct, it shouldn't really matter. But in reality, on a Ranger, it does.
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  #41  
Old 08-04-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireRanger
It doesn't really matter if you are a highly skilled HVAC tech or the one who invented refridgeration in the first place. It still doesn't change the fact that the AC works better and remains cooler with the fan on all the time and not cycling with the compressor. It is like standing outside in the rain and saying "Rain wasn't in the forcast so it is not raining right now."

You are correct, it shouldn't really matter. But in reality, on a Ranger, it does.

That was a lil one sided.

Well I really don't know much about it, but I'm gonna go with HVAC guy over oil changer guy and fireman guy.

Aaron
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  #42  
Old 08-04-2006
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I admit that theres better ways of setting up an automotive E-Fan system.
As far as I'm concerned there should be a temp switch on the condensor so that once the condensor cools down then the fan shuts off but I also think there should be speed sensor that shuts off the fan when you reach a certain speed because after a certain speed the Efan is useless.

Rick
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  #43  
Old 08-04-2006
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If you hook it to the compressor wire it will cycle to much and your fan life
will be greatly shortened..


I am not going to go about bashing my chest and proclaiming anything but
I HAVE ALSO had it wired to the compressor wire and it works like Crap.

It needs to run constantly at idle for it to work decently.
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  #44  
Old 08-04-2006
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Automotive A/C systems cycle on and off to prevent the formation of ice on the evaporator. The temperature of the heat exchanger is regulated to keep it safely above the freezing point of water. On some A/C systems, this is done with a temperature switch. On others, like Ford's, the critical temperature is inferred from pressure.

The refrigeration cycle used in A/C systems neither creates or eliminates heat. It simply moves it from one location to another. The efficiency of any particular system is directly related to how well it can reject the unwanted heat. In an automotive application, the heat is transported by the refrigerant and rejected to the outside air through the condenser.

The argument that the fan only needs to be on with compressor operation might be plausible if everything in the system happened instantaneously. But this is the real world and we are stuck with mechanical inertia, thermal inertia and heat transfer, each of which have a time component.

Consider the arrangement where a fan is activated only when the compressor clutch is commanded. When the vehicle is not moving and compressor cycles on, the fan comes on and air begins to move through the condenser. As this happens, heat is removed and the condensor fins cool, then the tubes cool. When the condenser tubes cool, heat is extracted from the refrigerant. None of this happens instantaneously.

This means that it makes a big difference in refrigerant temperature to have the fan running even during the compressor clutch "off" cycles. The time delay at the beginning of the "on" cycle is eliminated and the airflow through the condenser continues to remove heat from the refrigerant during the "off" cycle.

Most, if not all, OE automotive systems keep air flowing through the condenser during compressor "off" cycles, regardless of whether they are electric or mechanical. There is a reason for that.
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  #45  
Old 08-04-2006
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i said it a million times to hook it to the purple wire in other threads and PMs many others insisted the compressor wire. i tried the compressor wire, didnt work the first day, i switched it over to the purple per Bob's request and its work flawless since.
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  #46  
Old 08-04-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwenzing
Automotive A/C systems cycle on and off to prevent the formation of ice on the evaporator. The temperature of the heat exchanger is regulated to keep it safely above the freezing point of water. On some A/C systems, this is done with a temperature switch. On others, like Ford's, the critical temperature is inferred from pressure.

The refrigeration cycle used in A/C systems neither creates or eliminates heat. It simply moves it from one location to another. The efficiency of any particular system is directly related to how well it can reject the unwanted heat. In an automotive application, the heat is transported by the refrigerant and rejected to the outside air through the condenser.

The argument that the fan only needs to be on with compressor operation might be plausible if everything in the system happened instantaneously. But this is the real world and we are stuck with mechanical inertia, thermal inertia and heat transfer, each of which have a time component.

Consider the arrangement where a fan is activated only when the compressor clutch is commanded. When the vehicle is not moving and compressor cycles on, the fan comes on and air begins to move through the condenser. As this happens, heat is removed and the condensor fins cool, then the tubes cool. When the condenser tubes cool, heat is extracted from the refrigerant. None of this happens instantaneously.

This means that it makes a big difference in refrigerant temperature to have the fan running even during the compressor clutch "off" cycles. The time delay at the beginning of the "on" cycle is eliminated and the airflow through the condenser continues to remove heat from the refrigerant during the "off" cycle.

Most, if not all, OE automotive systems keep air flowing through the condenser during compressor "off" cycles, regardless of whether they are electric or mechanical. There is a reason for that.
just more info to back up my point that RHuckster is full of it.......
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  #47  
Old 08-04-2006
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Thats a great cut & paste line of bull**** if I ever saw it. Your A/C is putting out cold air(REMOVING HEAT) when the compressor cycles off & the condensor doesn't get any hotter until the compressor cycles back on in which the fan also cycles back on. What you total morons are saying is even with the refrigeration cycle off your A/C blows colder when the efan is on, now how in the **** can that be when there is NO relateship between the 2 when the refrigeration cycle is off? If you believe that line of crap you deserve what you get after you install your wimpy *** efans that have NO shroud & should be used as a pusher only & not a puller.
You guys would argue if I said the sky was blue but what can I expect from a site that lets you punks run rampant. I'm a member of many other sites & this one has to be the lamest site due to its users.
Thanks for nothing & stick your POS Rangers up your ***. I'm outta here.

Rick
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  #48  
Old 08-04-2006
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get an efan and try it. see what happens. no since in leaving.
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  #49  
Old 08-04-2006
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My wimpy *** efan has a shroud and is rated at 2500 CFM. It is a Flex-a-lite like you claim to have in your signature. I have actually tried it both ways and the A/C works well with the fan running continuously but fades at stops if the fan operation is synchronized with compressor clutch actuation. Others here have had the same results. Getting pissed won't change the facts.
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  #50  
Old 08-04-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RHuckster
Then you spew out that bull**** about how heat is not removed but moved in automotive A/C's.
It looks to me like the heat is moved from the refrigerated space to the ambient air in this diagram.


It is not possible for a refrigeration cycle to "remove" heat unless there is a heat sink to accept it. That's why you need an evaporator AND a condenser in a vapor compression refrigeration cycle.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RHuckster
The condensor is on the high pressure side of the A/C compressor & is already a liquid, it comes into the compressor as a gas & once it gets compressed then leaves as a liquid.
Uh, not true. The refrigerant leaves the compressor and enters the condenser as a high pressure/high temperature gas. The heat transfer from the refrigerant to the condenser to the air allows most of the refrigerant to undergo a state change from pressurized gas to liquid. If the state change did not occur within the condenser, there would be very little heat exchanged.

OBTW, the spelling is condenser, not condensor.
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