Replaced clutch - now its grinding in neutral - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


Drivetrain Tech General discussion of drivetrain for the Ford Ranger.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 01-31-2011
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sanford, fl
Posts: 11
Replaced clutch - now its grinding in neutral

I have a 2001 Mazda B3000 and I just replaced the clutch, the flywheel, the master cylinder, the slave cylinder, pilot bearing, and release bearing. I did the work myself and I followed the guidelines using AllData. I have everything hooked back up and bled the lines and the clutch pressure seems to be right. When I started my truck for the first time I heard the grinding from hell. It sounds similar to a playing card in a bicycle tire... only more painful. This was while I was in neutral and the clutch pedal was pressed in so no gears should be engaged. I shut the truck off immediately for fear of destroying something more costly to replace. My theory is that it has something to do with the flywheel but this could easily be wrong. Please help point me in the right direction! I have the unrealistic hope that I won't have to pull the transmission again.

Edit: Btw this is a manual transmission (I know that sounds ridiculous but just covering bases) and it's not the flex fuel model. My truck is the equivalent to the 3.0 Liter Ranger. This is also the Dual Sport model, though I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

Last edited by toodrunc2no; 01-31-2011 at 05:01 PM. Reason: new info
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-31-2011
buckgnarly's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: West Topsham, VT
Posts: 1,709
Pilot bearing? Did you smack the pilot bearing with the input shaft while installing? Did you use the bolts to pull the trans to the engine?
any one of those could have messed up the pilot bearing...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-31-2011
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sanford, fl
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckgnarly View Post
Pilot bearing? Did you smack the pilot bearing with the input shaft while installing? Did you use the bolts to pull the trans to the engine?
any one of those could have messed up the pilot bearing...
Could have happened. I had a little trouble getting the input shaft to go into its hole (cue childish jokes and laughter). I had to use a floor jack to push the tranny into it's place and it took a little shimmy-ing to get it in. Could that really have taken out the pilot bearing? And could that tiny little bearing make that much noise?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-31-2011
Murphy's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West Deptford NJ
Posts: 129
If you had to force the trans in, you can screw up the pilot bearing. It can make a real nasty noise.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-31-2011
buckgnarly's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: West Topsham, VT
Posts: 1,709
Might sound bad, but leave it in neutral, let the clutch out. IF the noise goes away, it's probably the pilot bearing.
Did you torque the flywheel right? Star pattern? Seems like a new flywheel would not be the issue but you never know...
Did you bend a finger on the pressure plate while installing?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-31-2011
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sanford, fl
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckgnarly View Post
Might sound bad, but leave it in neutral, let the clutch out. IF the noise goes away, it's probably the pilot bearing.
Did you torque the flywheel right? Star pattern? Seems like a new flywheel would not be the issue but you never know...
Did you bend a finger on the pressure plate while installing?
I tried leaving in neutral and letting the clutch out and I get the same noise. I used a hand torque wrench and set it to the right setting (I think it was 54-67) Correct star pattern. Could it be possible I didn't push the pilot bearing in far enough? I tapped it in using a rubber mallet and socket (the socket was touching the outside of the bearing) but I didn't want to push it in too far. I tightened the the bolts on the clutch cover a little at a time so I wouldn't damage the diaphragm fingers.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-31-2011
Bird76Mojo's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central, IL.
Posts: 1,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckgnarly View Post
Might sound bad, but leave it in neutral, let the clutch out. IF the noise goes away, it's probably the pilot bearing.
Did you torque the flywheel right? Star pattern? Seems like a new flywheel would not be the issue but you never know...
Did you bend a finger on the pressure plate while installing?

EDIT: nevermind.

Also, one bent finger on the pressure plate shouldn't make it do what he's describing. I had several bent on mine when I took it apart and a couple broke, and it NEVER made any real noise.


It almost sounds like (to me) that the pressure plate isn't installed flush (parallel) with the flywheel, but that's a wild guess.

Did you put the clutch itself in facing the correct direction??




GB :)

Last edited by Bird76Mojo; 01-31-2011 at 06:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-31-2011
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sanford, fl
Posts: 11
Yeah. It's has flywheel side written on the thing. I can check just in case when I embark on this horrid journey of taking my transmission off... Again... Seems as though I must. Makes me wanna cry and punch small puppies. Is there any way to check the pressure plate alignment (I just used the little plastic alignment tool to do so)? Is there a way to check if the pilot bearing is kaput?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-31-2011
Bird76Mojo's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central, IL.
Posts: 1,264
The clutch alignment tool is only used to line up the clutch splines for the tranny input shaft, so if you've already got the tranny in, then it's fine.

As for the pressure plate alignment (being parallel with the clutch), if the pressure plate dropped onto the pins on the flywheel and then you tightened it evenly, then that should be fine too.

I suppose it's probably the pilot bearing being damaged when installing the tranny?



GB :)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-31-2011
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sanford, fl
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird76Mojo View Post
The clutch alignment tool is only used to line up the clutch splines for the tranny input shaft, so if you've already got the tranny in, then it's fine.

As for the pressure plate alignment (being parallel with the clutch), if the pressure plate dropped onto the pins on the flywheel and then you tightened it evenly, then that should be fine too.

I suppose it's probably the pilot bearing being damaged when installing the tranny?



GB :)
Is there an easy way to install the tranny into the pilot bearing without damaging it? I mean the opening is not much bigger than my thumb and putting the shaft in when I can't really see the pilot bearing gives a whole meaning to "can't find the hole". We were trying to line it up using a floor jack and rolling it in but we still had to give it some push and wiggle to get it in there. I just hate to have to replace it and then botch the new pilot again, especially since it's like the last piece of removal. Well I suppose this time I won't have to take the flywheel so there's one less piece to remove but still...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-31-2011
buckgnarly's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: West Topsham, VT
Posts: 1,709
Every Ranger clutch I've done I've used the two alingment pins on either side of the trans. If you have them lined up, you are good.
Good trans jack or trans jack adaptor goes a long way too.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-31-2011
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sanford, fl
Posts: 11
this may sound dumb but what do you mean by alignment pins? And I would love to get a tranny jack but I can't really justify buying one to do one clutch change.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-01-2011
buckgnarly's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: West Topsham, VT
Posts: 1,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by toodrunc2no View Post
this may sound dumb but what do you mean by alignment pins? And I would love to get a tranny jack but I can't really justify buying one to do one clutch change.
Two hollow dowels at about 9 and 3 o'clock. The male part is on the engine side and the female on the bellhousing IIRC. It's where those two bolts go, the bolts go through the pins.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-01-2011
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1
Hi everyone, first post here after finding this forum searching for info on the exact same problem as the OP. Certainly not trying to hijack the thread, but wanted to contribute and inquire about the same problem. I'll start a new thread if directed.

I've installed a new slave cyl, pilot bearing, clutch, flywheel, and throwout bearing in an 88 Ranger 4x4 2.9, which from looking at slave cylinder applications seems to be the same type of setup as the OP. I also installed everything "by the book" (criss cross tightening bolts, torquing to spec, etc).

Now I am getting an intermittent noise exactly as described by the OP: speed dependent, sounds like ticking metal-on-metal. The noise occurs in neutral and when clutch pedal is pressed. When clutch is engaged, noise goes away. Again, the noise I get is sporadic..I've drove 20 miles gently last night around town, and I think the noise only happened 3 times or so.

Side note - the trans originally came out to replace a failed slave cylinder. The replacement I put in had a bad seal, so trans came apart again to install Motorcraft slave cylinder. Didn't have this noise with previous slave cylinder (it worked, just had small fluid leak from bad internal seal). However, Motorcraft slave cylinder came with new throwout bearing, which is what is in truck now.

Seems as people are suggesting bad pilot bearing or bent finger on pressure plate. I could see a bent finger causing this noise, but can't understand why a pilot bearing could be suspect, as this bearing is always spinning whether or not the clutch is engaged (flywheel is spinning even if transmission input shaft is not, so why would engaging clutch make noise go away?)

Unfortunately I think the only way for me and the OP are going to find our noise problems will be to remove the transmission again. This will be removal # 3 for me in a month.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-01-2011
buckgnarly's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: West Topsham, VT
Posts: 1,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben2020 View Post
Seems as people are suggesting bad pilot bearing or bent finger on pressure plate. I could see a bent finger causing this noise, but can't understand why a pilot bearing could be suspect, as this bearing is always spinning whether or not the clutch is engaged (flywheel is spinning even if transmission input shaft is not, so why would engaging clutch make noise go away?)
When the clutch is engaged to the flywheel, the flywheel, clutch disc, input shaft, and bearing are all spinning as one. Disengage the clutch and the shaft (with clutch disc) can now spin at different rates.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-01-2011
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Grand prairie,tx.
Posts: 58
Icon6

It sounds to me as if the clutch disc is in backwards(like the disc spring housing is contacting the flywheel &/or bolts when it's turning) I have done that myself & it will still go but makes this type of noise.If you can look at the clutch disc with a scope& see if the disc spring retainer is towards the front or back. It should be towards the back. After I had a few beers (even though it's marked Flywheel side) I still put it in wrong. It could happen!!! I agree with bird76mojo, about the disc being in wrong.

Last edited by 1kool1; 02-01-2011 at 01:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-01-2011
fredfx4's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: quebec canada
Posts: 203
Is there a shim between the engine and transmission bellhousing like the 4l has, if yes i would start there, worked in a trans shop and many of the noise problem we had where caused by the shim either bend on removal installation or misalign.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-01-2011
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sanford, fl
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1kool1 View Post
It sounds to me as if the clutch disc is in backwards(like the disc spring housing is contacting the flywheel &/or bolts when it's turning) I have done that myself & it will still go but makes this type of noise.If you can look at the clutch disc with a scope& see if the disc spring retainer is towards the front or back. It should be towards the back. After I had a few beers (even though it's marked Flywheel side) I still put it in wrong. It could happen!!! I agree with bird76mojo, about the disc being in wrong.
well I just removed everything. Disc is definitely in correct. also, this is not varying noise. it makes noise as soon as i start the truck. when i let the pedal out it makes the same noise. never changes, never stops. I havent let it run very long because the noise sounds like my truck is being punched in the face and i dont wanna hurt her anymore than the two times i started it. I cant see anything that seems out of the ordinary but maybe its the pilot bearing and i cant tell.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-01-2011
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sanford, fl
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredfx4 View Post
Is there a shim between the engine and transmission bellhousing like the 4l has, if yes i would start there, worked in a trans shop and many of the noise problem we had where caused by the shim either bend on removal installation or misalign.
wow, I think that may be it. I can see a little scoring on the little flange (i've been calling it a flange, though shim is probably more accurate.) I'm a little mad that this may be my reason.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-03-2011
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Grand prairie,tx.
Posts: 58
Icon6

Start the truck with the trans. out & make sure it isn't in the engine. If not then I also have to agree with the majority, pilot bearing. Good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-03-2011
pcollins's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Walworth, NY
Posts: 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1kool1 View Post
Start the truck with the trans. out & make sure it isn't in the engine. If not then I also have to agree with the majority, pilot bearing. Good luck.
1)No, never start the engine with the trans out because the rear support for the engine is gone w/o the tranny

2) how the hell would you start it anyways when the starter is bolted to the transmission? which is off the truck....
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-03-2011
buckgnarly's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: West Topsham, VT
Posts: 1,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcollins View Post
1)
2) how the hell would you start it anyways when the starter is bolted to the transmission? which is off the truck....
Duh, pop the clutch......
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-03-2011
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sanford, fl
Posts: 11
Yeah I was wondering if its possible to start the truck without the tranny. I thought it was the shim/flange but it's not I straightened it out, checked that the clutch disc was in the right way (says flywheel side on the part facing the flywheel, is there another way to check?), and twisted my finger in the pilot bearing to check for smooth movement. Put everything back together and nearly set my truck on fire when it made the noise again. Also, we are smelling something though it's hard to explain. Definitely smells really unhappy. Idk why but the ratcheting sounds just seems that it may be the flywheel. What do the teeth on the flywheel connect to? The starter? Could it be misaligned with the starter? I'm starting to suspect the flywheel is the wrong size or tooth count or something. The noise just seems to be too rapid-fire for pilot bearing. It's 5-6 "ratchets" per second, maybe more. But then again I'm a novice. I think the flywheel part number is 50-741. I wish I would have replaced the pilot bearing but I was convinced it was that shim. I'm too the point of calling an in home mechanic though I really can't afford it. I'm just at a complete loss as to what the issue is.

Last edited by toodrunc2no; 02-03-2011 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Unfinished response
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-04-2011
SkidPlate's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: La Crete , Alberta
Posts: 43
By the time you're done you'll be an expert clutch installer for this make/model. You need to try and identify the smell was the smell electrical, clutch disc, oil, that might help to narrow your problem down. Did you toss the old parts already? if not I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trans and all the components and compare them to the old parts. look for scraping, scoring,rubbing any deformities or defects. New parts aren't always perfect. Could the starter be hanging up not releasing. Before pulling anything look for what ever you can find that might seem out of the ordinary abnormal wear on the ring gear/starter gear. Check the flywheel for runout, end play on the crank. I would be all over that thing like stink on ****. I enjoy figuring stuff like that out.

Don't let your frustrations get the best of you. Relax, call up a buddy to come assist you maybe get some beers (within reason) turn on your favorite tunes and get to figuring what went wrong. One other thing don't ever throw away old parts right away and never sweep the floor until the job is done.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-04-2011
Bird76Mojo's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central, IL.
Posts: 1,264
I'm just about stumped on this one..

There are different flywheels and starters for different engine configurations, so the flywheel being wrong is a possibility. The starter teeth engagement on the flywheel could be making some noise in that scenario..

I do believe it's also possible that IF you got the flywheel turned, they can surface grind too much off of it, but I don't think that would make anything noisy like you guys are describing.


GB :)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
what is going on getting a code for parts i replaced after i replaced another part 894banger General Ford Ranger Discussion 4 05-11-2011 09:45 PM
replaced the door lock actuator - now I have a problem doogster General Technical & Electrical 0 04-20-2011 06:18 AM
Replaced upper/lower manifold gakets. Now no spark! lhanson 2.9L & 3.0L V6 Tech 16 02-10-2011 10:11 AM
Thermostat replaced. Coolant leak and now I have a squeak feh728 2.9L & 3.0L V6 Tech 1 11-03-2010 09:08 AM
Symptom: Redlining in neutral/clutch pushed in. No idle. Fx4wannabe01 4.0L OHV & SOHC V6 Tech 23 06-19-2009 07:45 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:54 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.