Stupid nitrous questions.. - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


Forced Induction & N20 Tech General discussion of forced induction and nitrous for the Ford Ranger.

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  #1  
Old 08-04-2007
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Stupid nitrous questions..

I just signd up today but have noticed the retarded questions about how much NAWZ the motor will hold


55 is a very safe generic answer.. '


now onto my question


Do the 2.3l have return fuel systems so a dry kit will work fine or do we have a returnless system and have to use a wet system inless we have some sort of fuel managment
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  #2  
Old 08-04-2007
D.
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What year is your truck?
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2007
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Originally Posted by D.
What year is your truck?
2004


i had a 2002 focus svt previously and it was returnless which really suprised me
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2007
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You have a returnless system as well on your present vehical. Unfortunatly, I don't think anyone here will have much ' solid ' advice for you in regards to juicing your 4banger. I could give you the specs ( or you could look at my profile ) and see what I used for mine ( its not a joke either, its all really there ) .

Wheres Rwenzinger when I have a question for him

What I'm wondering.. which injectors your engine has and *IF* it could take an SVT focus fuel pump. If so, you MIGHT be able to tap off the end of the fuel rail as if it were a return. You will be able to use the factory pressure regulator to keep the fuel and injectors pressure up so long as you don't jet out to like a .092 or something huge.

I don't know what sized jets you will use but I have seen escort engines running 40-60 dyno measured wheel ponies on wett systems. NOBODY runs dry in my area ( were on a lake, moist air.. ).

Most folks with 4 bangers looking for more power grab an old turbo-coup or svo turbo-4 and do a swap. I don't think what your up against is too hard, or non-achievable, I'm just not well versed in what your trying to do.

A GOOD source on such would be a visit to RangerPowerSports.com . They kinda cater to the bagged/lowered/street truck type of crowd and it wouldn't surprise me if they had a whole section to juicing a 2.3 .

Good luck,
D.
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2007
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thanks for the reply, my goal is 200 whp on the bottle with a 50 shot and 150 whp with bolt ons

hoping torque will be around 160 off and 220 on


so i think that is more than capable with a small shot and bolt ons..

i figure race header, custom 2 3/4 " exhaust , custom 3 1/2" CAI and a sct tune.
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Old 08-05-2007
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I would have no problems buying an NX universal wet kit (jetted to 50) and putting it on the truck. The only option that I would want is an rpm window switch so you don't hit the rev limiter while the nitrous is engaged. Things can go boom when that happpens.

I've always run wet systems. The closest engine I have had to yours that I nitroused is a saturn 1.9L DOHC. With a 50 shot I never had any problems. Higher than that and timing and fuel improvements are needed. I did run 75 out of it briefly and everything held together fine.
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graniteguy
The only option that I would want is an rpm window switch so you don't hit the rev limiter while the nitrous is engaged. Things can go boom when that happpens.
LOL! NO $hit :) . You found out the hard way like myself or just from ' observation '?
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Old 08-06-2007
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THAT never happened to me. But things have.

A lot of new nitrous users (and those giving advice that don't know what they are talking about) talk about using a fuel pressure cutoff switch to protect them if they hit an rpm or top speed limiter. Bad advice. The fuel pressure doesn't drop in this scenario. Either the the injector doesn't open or the spark doesn't fire. The nitrous still flows though.

I've had two mistakes. Both would have been avoided by using the kit as the kit was intended, with the safey features sent with the kit.

one resulted in a melted spark plug. Another left a plastic intake manifold in several pieces.
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Old 08-06-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graniteguy
I would have no problems buying an NX universal wet kit (jetted to 50) and putting it on the truck. The only option that I would want is an rpm window switch so you don't hit the rev limiter while the nitrous is engaged. Things can go boom when that happpens.

I've always run wet systems. The closest engine I have had to yours that I nitroused is a saturn 1.9L DOHC. With a 50 shot I never had any problems. Higher than that and timing and fuel improvements are needed. I did run 75 out of it briefly and everything held together fine.

thanks man.. All i want to do is run a high 14 in the truc just to turn some heads and when on the street have that extra umph..


funny note: the ranger gets better mpg than my focus svt
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graniteguy
Another left a plastic intake manifold in several pieces.

I have pics of such somewhere
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  #11  
Old 08-06-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
I have pics of such somewhere
I drove mine home about 1 mile afterwards. Talk about loss of torque.

Civic, I think the universal wet kit is the way to go along with the rpm window switch. Technology has climbed since I started using it. They probably have programmers available now that incorporate the rpm switch along with a delayed shot. That would be better. By delayed, it clicks the nitrous on/off repeatedly for the first second or two so you are not absorbing a large shot at one time.

Don't try to overthink it. Get the kit and run it. This one item will shave more time than all other mods combined. Get this done and worry about cats, exhaust, cai, etc another time. If you start spending for the other items, the $$ will never be there for the nitrous. That make sense?


I'm glad to see you posting "time" goals instead of "hp" goals. HP goals are for bragging rights. 1/4 mile times means you focus on more than HP. Traction and weight reduction will help as much as hp to hit your time goals.
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  #12  
Old 08-07-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graniteguy
I drove mine home about 1 mile afterwards. Talk about loss of torque.

Civic, I think the universal wet kit is the way to go along with the rpm window switch. Technology has climbed since I started using it. They probably have programmers available now that incorporate the rpm switch along with a delayed shot. That would be better. By delayed, it clicks the nitrous on/off repeatedly for the first second or two so you are not absorbing a large shot at one time.

Don't try to overthink it. Get the kit and run it. This one item will shave more time than all other mods combined. Get this done and worry about cats, exhaust, cai, etc another time. If you start spending for the other items, the $$ will never be there for the nitrous. That make sense?

I'm glad to see you posting "time" goals instead of "hp" goals. HP goals are for bragging rights. 1/4 mile times means you focus on more than HP. Traction and weight reduction will help as much as hp to hit your time goals.
Thanks man, makes perfect sense... I can get intake and exhaust for around 200 bucks so thats not too rough. (I enjoy ****ing up my own vehicles haha) the biggest hit would be the tune but like you are saying i will worry about that later...

so i believe i am going to go intake/exhaust/nitrous then worry about header and tune

I am suprised teh truck weighs sooooo little too.. i think i read somewhere 3000 lbs w/o a/c
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2007
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Not to come accross as a know it all.. but when it comes to nitrous I know an awful lot.
(my latest design.. http://www.racetested.com/product_in...roducts_id=140)

There is a fundimental problem with typical use and understanding of nitrous.
And that is not spreading the load out. Too much too soon is what nearly everyone accepts as *normal*. But thats just plain stupid! The typical fixed hit kits are about the worst thing you can possibly do to a engine. N02 gets to the intake valve first and then the fuel gets there. This creats a HUGE lean out which sometimes backfires. On top of that your trying to run the same amount of N/F per a given stroke at 2500rpms as you are at 5500rpms. That again is stupid and very hard on parts. Especially the rod bearings and piston skirts.

The correct way to inject nitrous is to time the fuel and N02 so that they reach the intake valve at the same time and in a small but increasing amount. If your nitrous is setup properly you will not feel a surge in power & you'll be able to spray more than is typically accepted.

Ramp up your nitrous, control top end rpms, have a little excess octane, and you won't need band aids like rpm switchs, and purge kits. Neither of which address the basic problem!!

Watch my run in the caddy. No purge needed and no sudden surge in power. (vid at bottom of page) http://www.racetested.com/images/gal..._Cadillac.html

EDIT: Here is a quick video of nitrous ramping up. 3 second nitrous ramp

If anyone has questions about nitrous I'd love to answer them. Just be warned... I know a thing or two about the subject.

Regards,
Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 08-21-2007 at 07:04 AM.
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  #14  
Old 09-07-2007
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I know the mustang 2.3s are different but they will break at a 125 shot.

They can handle a lot under that but most of ours (3) blew up after a couple of passes with 125.

We had a internet forum shootout and brought a 92 foxbody with a stock 2.3 shortblock, some kind of re-ground cam, a ranger? intake manifold, header and hooker maxflow muffler. It did however go some 10.0s @ 70 on the motor and went numerous 8.10-8.20s @ 85 on 100-125.
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2007
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Rich, I understand a progressive nitrous rate. My first time playing with it was a fwd. The term "torque steer" became self evident. One solid shot to the wheels that do the steering took some adjusting to.

I don't understand how a guy would control top end rpms without a band aid such as an rpm window switch though. I put this on the top of the must list but if there is a work-around to avoid it please elaborate.
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  #16  
Old 09-10-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graniteguy
I don't understand how a guy would control top end rpms without a band aid such as an rpm window switch though. I put this on the top of the must list but if there is a work-around to avoid it please elaborate.
I wouldn't turn the nitrous off up top. I personally do two things on the Lightning and Caddy.
1) Lower commanded shift rpm by about 300-400 (and/or) make the tranny shifts happen quicker. The increased power will make the acceleration rate occur faster.
If the commanded shift point and tranny clutch enguagement are left alone? You'll see 300-700 more rpms at about the 30% TQ increase level. That might run you into fuel or ignition cut out and damage the motor.

2) Timing reduction during the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts will help reduce drivetrain shock. (most stock programs and tuners call this "torque reduction")

Turning the nitrous off up top is more of a headache and tuning effort than is to just lower the shift rpm points, and increase tranny line pressure a little.

btw... on the caddy the stock computer adjusts itself for this increased acceleration rate. My shifts come in firmer, quicker, and only about 300 rpms higher during a 100shot. My Lightning does not accomidate at all and I have to command a lower shift as well as add a tranny valve body.
A 4.0L ranger has a short stroke crank and can take the rpms. So, I'd want to see the torque reduction left on and just remove the top end rpm limiter. Or at least put it up around 6500+ rpms. As-is mine shifts 5500 with the Bama tunes... so if I were seeing 6000 during a spray it would be fine IMO. Not too sure about the 3.0L motors though..

Rich
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl
A 4.0L ranger has a short stroke crank and can take the rpms. So, I'd want to see the torque reduction left on and just remove the top end rpm limiter. Or at least put it up around 6500+ rpms. As-is mine shifts 5500 with the Bama tunes... so if I were seeing 6000 during a spray it would be fine IMO. Not too sure about the 3.0L motors though..

Rich
I use a window switching system that opens at 3900 and leaves it on till 6700rpm's. The progressive controller touches nothing below or above that range.

As you played with the shift points, I had a local shop play with my Manuals Gearing as well as my rear gears. Running 3.31's out back hurts a bit off the line, but makes up a LOT on the top end in higher RPM's when the nitrous is coming on.
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  #18  
Old 09-11-2007
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I reckon that you could always add a window switch for added safety. No harm there if it's a "back up system". I just don't like the idea of someone using the window switch as a front line defense. That's actually quite hard on the motor!
Ramping though will keep the air/nitrous/fuel (per stroke) in balance no matter the rpms. Time based vs rpm based is where the latest technology is at. Currently I'm in the middle of switching over to rpm based controller for the Lightning. The caddy is still time based because I have it dialed in.

The caddy I have is a good example. It has a very tall gear ratio. Off nitrous I'm barely getting into 3rd going through the traps. And on a hot summer day I can actually go through in 2nd. I'm tellin ya.. it's got L-O-N-G legs.

At the track when spraying I have a 0.5 second initial delay to let the car pitch and the rpms come up, then fuel on, nitrous is delayed 0.2 seconds after the fuel, and then both are ramped from 20hp to 100hp over 0.7 -to- 1.0 seconds depending on track conditions. Thats what I've found to be the best balance of rpms, traction, and cylinder fill. It starts shooting out about 10ft (2300-2400rpms)... and I'm getting the full 100shot out at about the 60ft mark (approx 4200rpms) The video above was just like this except I ramped a little too quick at 0.5 seconds. You can hear the tires breaking a little too. Shooting like that I go through the traps at about 104-105mph and am up around 4500 in 3rd.

Rich
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  #19  
Old 10-23-2007
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What electronic box allows you to adjust the timing of when the solenoids are activated?
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  #20  
Old 10-24-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustanger1986
What electronic box allows you to adjust the timing of when the solenoids are activated?
The one pictured on the right is what I had on the CADDY this year. Now I have the one on the left. It's not installed yet and requires a latop to interface with. But it's sweet! You can have non-linear ramps by just dragging the graph with your mouse.
http://www.racetested.com/index.php?...b2ececeaae77a2


I also have a controller for the Lightning.. but it's most likely WAAAY overkill for a lil ole ranger.
http://www.noswizard.com/product_inf...roducts_id=101
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