2WD Ranger still fish-tailing in snow even with weight in the back and all terrains? - Page 3 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


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  #51  
Old 12-27-2010
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wow.... This thread has been beaten to DEATH with the same information.


Slow down
Air down your tires (I wouldnt go below 10 PSI if you have stock width tires/rims. You'll probably pop a bead)
Stay OFF the gas.
Brake early.



And for God's sake, DO NOT buy studded tires. All those damn things do is tear up the roads.
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  #52  
Old 12-27-2010
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Originally Posted by stephen.g.fiddes View Post
wow.... This thread has been beaten to DEATH with the same information.


Slow down
Air down your tires (I wouldnt go below 10 PSI if you have stock width tires/rims. You'll probably pop a bead)
Stay OFF the gas.
Brake early.



And for God's sake, DO NOT buy studded tires. All those damn things do is tear up the roads.
Same information but not all accurate. Please find and share one shred of evidence from a professional study or expert that lowering tire pressure increases traction on wet or snowy roads. Lowering tire pressure worsens fuel economy, provides LESS traction, and in some instances dangerous.
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  #53  
Old 12-27-2010
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Originally Posted by wellcom2knoxvile View Post
i cant emphasize enough how much running low psi in the tires will affect low traction capability.. bring your tires down to 12-15 PSI and you shouldn't have anymore problems!

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Originally Posted by teeth View Post
Same information but not all accurate. Please find and share one shred of evidence from a professional study or expert that lowering tire pressure increases traction on wet or snowy roads. Lowering tire pressure worsens fuel economy, provides LESS traction, and in some instances dangerous.
You're driving in snow, which already worsens the fuel economy. Lower pressure helps with traction in the snow. Speaking from experience here...

Sure, what you said is true while driving on dry pavement. Which is why you air up when you're not on trail or driving in the snow.
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  #54  
Old 12-27-2010
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I post again... Traction comes from downward applied force as opposed to increased friction. When driving on wet or snowy roads the rubber tires are making contact with a thin layer of water / ice / snow. Tires have grooves to remove some water from contacting the tires. You might think this is increasing friction with the road but in actuality tread contact is grabbing and pushing snow or mud backwards. The more pushed out of the way the more the engine has to work, and the more the engine works the greater the force applied to the road. Lower psi reduces the amount of direct force placed on a road despite the f increased surface area. Added weight to the bed and proper tire pressure and tires ensures the highest possible applied force to the road despite utilizing a smaller contact patch.

In short, the more pressure per square inch of tire tread, the better traction the tire will have in the snow (even if the tire has less overall tread on the ground).
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  #55  
Old 12-27-2010
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Sorry dude better traction comes from more downward force as opposed to increased friction. When driving on wet or snowy roads the rubber tires are making contact with a thin layer of water / ice / snow. Tires have grooves to remove some water from contacting the tires. You might think this is increasing friction with the road but in actuality tread contact is grabbing and pushing snow or mud backwards. The more pushed out of the way the more the engine has to work, and the more the engine works the greater the force applied to the road. Lower psi reduces the amount of direct force placed on a road despite the f increased surface area. Added weight to the bed and proper tire pressure and tires ensures the highest possible applied force to the road despite utilizing a smaller contact patch.

In short, the more pressure per square inch of tire tread, the better traction the tire will have in the snow (even if the tire has less overall tread on the ground). Ask your local tire technician.

and if not that how about physics? Tires and Friction ...............................
Newtons law: To every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Therefore, if the tires are pushing mud out of the way, there is also friction between the mud and tires. Therefore, the truck moves forward. I would love for you to go out and try driving in the snow with aired up tires, then air'd down.
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  #56  
Old 12-27-2010
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TEETH. i think my IQ JUST DROPPED AFTER READING YOUR POST!! did you really just try to convince ppl what less surface area = more traction? and that more PSI is better in low traction situations? have you ever driven a vehicle? are you high?

Look at the bright side dude, you only have 8 posts. It's not to late to get a new name and start over, nobody will know.
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  #57  
Old 12-27-2010
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Originally Posted by wellcom2knoxvile View Post
TEETH. i think my IQ JUST DROPPED AFTER READING YOUR POST!! did you really just try to convince ppl what less surface area = more traction? and that more PSI is better in low traction situations? have you ever driven a vehicle? are you high?

Look at the bright side dude, you only have 8 posts. It's not to late to get a new name and start over, nobody will know.
LMFAO!!!!!!


EDIT: Sig'd
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  #58  
Old 12-27-2010
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Originally Posted by teeth View Post
I post again... Traction comes from downward applied force as opposed to increased friction. When driving on wet or snowy roads the rubber tires are making contact with a thin layer of water / ice / snow. Tires have grooves to remove some water from contacting the tires. You might think this is increasing friction with the road but in actuality tread contact is grabbing and pushing snow or mud backwards. The more pushed out of the way the more the engine has to work, and the more the engine works the greater the force applied to the road. Lower psi reduces the amount of direct force placed on a road despite the f increased surface area. Added weight to the bed and proper tire pressure and tires ensures the highest possible applied force to the road despite utilizing a smaller contact patch.

In short, the more pressure per square inch of tire tread, the better traction the tire will have in the snow (even if the tire has less overall tread on the ground).
by posting that nonsense a SECOND time, You have just gone FULL RETARD.
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  #59  
Old 12-27-2010
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by posting that nonsense a SECOND time, You have just gone FULL RETARD.
dammmit TEETH!! everyone knows you NEVER GO FULL RETARD!!
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  #60  
Old 12-27-2010
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Originally Posted by stephen.g.fiddes View Post
Newtons law: To every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Therefore, if the tires are pushing mud out of the way, there is also friction between the mud and tires. Therefore, the truck moves forward. I would love for you to go out and try driving in the snow with aired up tires, then air'd down.
Tires grab and push snow or mud backwards. This requires more power to be transferred to the tires from the engine. A greater force is applied, causing an greater 'equal-but-opposite' reaction force, which is what pushes the vehicle ahead. Better traction comes from more force being applied to the ground, not an increase in friction.

I live in Chicago, I drive everyday, it snows plenty.
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  #61  
Old 12-27-2010
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Originally Posted by teeth View Post
Tires grab and push snow or mud backwards. This requires more power to be transferred to the tires from the engine. A greater force is applied, causing an greater 'equal-but-opposite' reaction force, which is what pushes the vehicle ahead. Better traction comes from more force being applied to the ground, not an increase in friction.

I live in Chicago, I drive everyday, it snows plenty.
but if your tires cannot get to the ground (because there is snow or ice between the tires and the ground) or because the ground is INCREDIBLY soft, the lower tire pressure allows the tire to spread out, and create greater surface area for the weight to be spread out over.

Open a pocket knife, and push your thumb on the back side of the blade. Then turn the knife over and push on the sharp edge of the blade. The sharp edge cuts through your hand quickly, much like the tires would at high pressure. If the snow is deep, and the tires cut through too far, you get high centered on the snow bank.
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  #62  
Old 12-27-2010
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Just remember that if you start fishtailing dont hit the gas or brake, that'll just make it worse.
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  #63  
Old 12-27-2010
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Can we drop it now? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, lets try to discuss without bashing each other.
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  #64  
Old 12-27-2010
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Can we drop it now? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, lets try to discuss without bashing each other.
thank you trent.
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  #65  
Old 12-27-2010
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It's not just you. I have an 02 FX4 with brand new BFG A/T (basically an all season tire...) and in 2wd I still sometimes slide. Then again, I'm from NEPA (North East Pennsylvania) where snow can get EXTREME during the winter.

In 4wd, I do still slide around sometimes, and this is with zero weight in the back.

Just gotta learn the proper way to drive in the snow....
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  #66  
Old 12-27-2010
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Snow. Tires.
Locking Diff.
Weight.
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  #67  
Old 12-27-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woofer2609 View Post
Snow. Tires.
Locking Diff.
Weight.


yes to all but the second. a locking diff could be bad for an already light vehicle with a inexperienced driver..... that would make for a very slippery drive with lots "fish tailing."


teeth, if we are wrong please go prove it to us. air up your tires extremely high and see if you have better traction. on the contrary, air them down and see what its like. it may not make a lot of difference for you but i, and many many others, have had great success with airing down. before you dismiss our findings, please at least try it.... its not like it costs anything.... maybe a buck if you do not have an air compressor.



also just like trying to get mpg's, its all in your driving
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  #68  
Old 12-27-2010
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When i lived in canada i would run my tires at 35psi in the summer and 30 in the winter because contact to the ground = traction and the more tire on the ground = more traction available. Also to the guy who said don't run less than 10psi, i wouldn't run less than 25 myself, no need to put extra pressure and weight on the tires sidewall.

But in reality a winter tire, weight in the back and a pound of common sense will get you through anything old man winter has to throw at you. And if that doesn't work well you probably shouldn't have been out driving anyway.

Edit: Man i hope it snows this week, i'm itching to have some fun again while all the hippies freak out over a couple snow flakes.
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  #69  
Old 12-27-2010
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Originally Posted by Marchy View Post
When i lived in canada i would run my tires at 35psi in the summer and 30 in the winter because contact to the ground = traction and the more tire on the ground = more traction available. Also to the guy who said don't run less than 10psi, i wouldn't run less than 25 myself, no need to put extra pressure and weight on the tires sidewall.

But in reality a winter tire, weight in the back and a pound of common sense will get you through anything old man winter has to throw at you. And if that doesn't work well you probably shouldn't have been out driving anyway.
Good call. Forgot that the stock tires/ rims are so close in size, would not have enough pressure there to even keep the bead on... Works ok if you're running 12.5 on 8" rims lol

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Edit: Man i hope it snows this week, i'm itching to have some fun again while all the hippies freak out over a couple snow flakes.
Pisses me off...
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  #70  
Old 12-27-2010
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Originally Posted by wellcom2knoxvile View Post
TEETH. i think my IQ JUST DROPPED AFTER READING YOUR POST!! did you really just try to convince ppl what less surface area = more traction? and that more PSI is better in low traction situations? have you ever driven a vehicle? are you high?

Look at the bright side dude, you only have 8 posts. It's not to late to get a new name and start over, nobody will know.
awesome hahahaha
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  #71  
Old 12-27-2010
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Originally Posted by Marchy View Post
Edit: Man i hope it snows this week, i'm itching to have some fun again while all the hippies freak out over a couple snow flakes.

haha awesome, by the sound of it i think we will man!!!!
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  #72  
Old 12-27-2010
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I find that driver input is 100 times more important driving in snow than tire size/type. As shown by the news every major storm, doesn't matter what size tire you have or whether you're in a semi or car, people still manage to put everything in the ditch.
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  #73  
Old 12-27-2010
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Originally Posted by Red_Ak_Ranger View Post
I find that driver input is 100 times more important driving in snow than tire size/type. As shown by the news every major storm, doesn't matter what size tire you have or whether you're in a semi or car, people still manage to put everything in the ditch.
Bingo. It's all about driver experience. You never get it until you get out there and drive in it. And remember there is an experience in the good and the bad. Putting it in the ditch is a good lesson. Keeping it out of the ditch is also a good lesson. Hiding inside has never done anyone any good. Now an icy/snowy parking lot with no weight in the bed on regular all-seasons will do wonders for yah.

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dammmit TEETH!! everyone knows you NEVER GO FULL RETARD!!
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH
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  #74  
Old 12-27-2010
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Not to sound like an old timer sittin' on the back porch, but after installing new snow tires this winter, and driving some of the same roads as I do every year, I find that tires make the most difference, not wanting to end up in the ditch last year or this year. The new tires, Dunlop RVXT's are TERRIBLE compared to my old "Winter King" brand tires I had never even heard of before and bought mounted, almost new off CL for $300 a few years ago. Now I'm stuck with some $600+ summer tires. Yay. And yes, they have the Rubber Association of Canada severe weather Snow ratings. So yeah, driver input, but definitely tires.
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  #75  
Old 12-27-2010
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Originally Posted by woofer2609 View Post
Not to sound like an old timer sittin' on the back porch, but after installing new snow tires this winter, and driving some of the same roads as I do every year, I find that tires make the most difference, not wanting to end up in the ditch last year or this year. The new tires, Dunlop RVXT's are TERRIBLE compared to my old "Winter King" brand tires I had never even heard of before and bought mounted, almost new off CL for $300 a few years ago. Now I'm stuck with some $600+ summer tires. Yay. And yes, they have the Rubber Association of Canada severe weather Snow ratings. So yeah, driver input, but definitely tires.
There are a number of other all terrain tires that have the severe snow symbol....have read that these AT tires have somehow got "around and passed" the snowflake rating (loophole?).

Based on my personal experience with BFG AT T/A KO (an AT tire that has the severe snow symbol), they are not very good in winter conditions. IMO, true winter tires have softer rubber compounds than these AT tires. Also, true winter tires have a lot more sipes than AT tires. Most true winter tires are directional; AT tires are typically not directional.

Even an entry level winter tire like the Arctic Claw TXI performed circles around the BFG AT T/A KO.

Dave
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