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Old 05-12-2008
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Hydrogen booster and inititial results

I am a happy camper right now. I have been working on my booster and associated trappings. I have mentioned this on here in different posts And said I would post results. This is initial results.
Well today it came together after a month.
I have a 05 Ford Ranger Edge truck. With a 3.0L, auto, 4.10 gears. 235/70-15 tires.
My mileage was averaging 19.88 MPG.
I have built and installed
1 Smack's Booster
2. safety switch in oil pressure
3. voltage adder to the O2 sensors (2)(built by me)
4. got it all mounted in cool little box.

I did a test run today with it all hooked up
cold I got 1.2 L/min HHO out of booster. My voltage booster was set at
0.3 Volts added on a 555 timer to the O2 sensors.
I filled up at same station same pump. Temp 72 Deg.F ambient air
temp.
Same road same speeds 55-60MPH.
Test 1: no booster associated equip on.
63.6 miles used 3.2 gal. =19.88MPG

Test 2: booster on voltage adder on, Ammeter not working, but has
been about 9.5-10 amps up to 15A when warm on the Booster.
29 miles used 1.15 gal=25.2 MPG

Results: The booster gave me an increase in mileage of 25.2/19.8
equals an increase of 27% in gas mileage.I expect it to increase as
booster breaks in. If no increase I'm happy. I expect some kinks yet
but so far so good.

27% 27% I'm a happy camper right now.
MaxB (brain and eyes hurt from thinkin and solderin up boards)
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Old 05-12-2008
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Holy crap, more info wanted. Are you willing to make a set-up for me?
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Old 05-12-2008
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how much did this thing cost and where did u buy it?
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Old 05-12-2008
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Ok, we need pictures and video ASAP. This will be an official first for an R-F member and worthy of a bigtime sticky. I would HAVE to put this thing in the cab or in the back. The cell with the hydrogen bubbling is just too cool. Although it might get ugly if it starts to leak.
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2008
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To get started, you need to have or build four things.
1. Some kind of booster cell. I chose the Smacks booster, It works well. Read his description carefully and FOLLOW the directions and you will not have a problem. He has a list of parts and where to get them. Buy the stuff from there and save yourself some pain. You might have to adjust the case to fit your space.
2. An electrical circuit to run it. This includes safeties to prevent gas production without the engine running.
3. Some kind of monitoring equipment. Ammeter, shunt and meter, thermometer (this can be just a kitchen thermometer you stick in booster when it off).
4. On some newer vehicles you might need a means of fooling your engine CPU to thinking it is not running lean and adding more gas. There are lots of alternatives here, EFIE is one, Youtube has several methods shown. Your choice as to which is best for you.
5.
Here is the watercar forum, good place to learn. Go to files: and read DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!!!
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/w...r/messages?o=1

Here is The Smackís booster site. Watch his videos on how to. Heís a character.

http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/

Here is my simple wiring diagram:

http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/grou...os/browse/2225

There are different types of O2 sensor voltage adders out there. You can make your own or buy already to install. (I made my own)
Here are some places:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTP16...eature=related

http://www.eagle-research.com/FAQ/FS/efiefaq.html

Do your HOMEWORK and have fun.
REMEMBER: Hydrogen is a VERY Explosive Gas. So donít chinz out on the safeties.

Hope this helps.
MaxB
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Old 05-12-2008
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I think they are making kits now.
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  #7  
Old 05-12-2008
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I've got about $300 in parts, but Ihave enough to build 3-4 boosters on hand.
Installed parts in the truck it is around $100-130. bUT i BUILT ALL OF IT.
YOU CAN BUY all the stuff for around booster $200, EFIE $70, wiring gauges etc, $40,

IS spending $300 bucks and getting a 27% increase in gas mileage worth it. your call. For me it is.
PICS...?????? maybe soon we'll see...
MaxB (brain and eyes hurt from thinkin and solderin tiny tiny boards)
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Old 05-12-2008
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Yes they make kits , some work some don't. I did a lot of research getting to this point. I think I chose well.

IF you have to buy go to watercars forum and see what they say to get.

DON'T believe the HYPE on some sites about 100% increase in MPG, I expected maybe 15-20% and would have been happy. but I got 27% and I am elated.
MaxB
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Old 05-12-2008
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Would you make a kit and sell it?
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Old 05-12-2008
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OH, for those of you who like a loud exhaust , it's a little quieter with the booster and the tailpipe smell like a steam iron when you get your nose down there, not like usual smell. The engine runs the same as before, maybe a little smoother. And no I am not burning water. My tube from the bubbler is clear no steam, and i don't have to add water to the booster but maybe every 200 miles. And then it's only an ounce or two.
MaxB
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  #11  
Old 05-12-2008
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Would I make a kit and sell it???????
At this time no.
I have to make setups for kids and friends, 5 at this point.
I don't know of anyone source that makes EVERYTHING you need.
Plus doing it yourself lets you know how it works.
yes you can buy all the stuff already made from places i listed above if you prefer.
MaxB

Last edited by MaxB; 05-12-2008 at 09:20 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-12-2008
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How much pressure will one of these cells generate if the gas isn't getting released. Will it keep building up pressure for as long as the components will withstand it?
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  #13  
Old 05-12-2008
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The cell produces very little pressure as it is open to bubbler and then to intake. I guess if a hose got kinked it would finally buid up enough to pop one of the push fit fittings apart. they are just plastic 1/4 inch hose with push fittings. Kinda like a pot simmering open to the air. I have put my finger over the end of the outlet hose for a couple of minutes and not much pressure. I leave the last fitting not all the way pushed on It could get out there, and I used it to take off and put on a different hose to measure HHO output.
MaxB
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  #14  
Old 05-13-2008
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Here are some pics: the truck is dirty so please ignore that.
this O2 sensor hook up needs tidying up.



this front of truck



this side view of booster. You can see where I had to cut out some of the plastic.



this side view of bubbler the hose on top goes to engine air box.



this shunt to meter and relay



this is closeup of control box. it is about 6w x2H x4D it will be velcroed under the ash tray spot when completed.



this truck interior, messy with all the install and monitor stuff.



MaxB

Last edited by MaxB; 05-13-2008 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 05-13-2008
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What exactly does the control box do?
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Old 05-13-2008
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Looks complicated, but pretty sweet.
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  #17  
Old 05-13-2008
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The control box has the on switch for the booster and also has the O2 sensor voltage adder circuit board and on/off switch for it and pots for controlling voltage sent out by o2 sensor board.
MaxB
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  #18  
Old 05-13-2008
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ok forgive me if i sound like an idiot, but if this is running on water what are you going to do when the temperature drops to below freezing? just empty the system and leave it off? im not trying to shoot you down. i really like this idea just trying to figure out if it will work year round.
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  #19  
Old 05-13-2008
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There has been some discussion on this subject in the wwatercar forum. The booster itself is water and NaOH solution. Some have reported that it doesn't freeze. Also in the booster the current added when on should defrost it if it does freeze.
As for the bubbler i guess you could put some antifreeze in it to prevent freezing.
Go here and do a search on "freezing"

MaxB

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/w...r/messages?o=1
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  #20  
Old 05-13-2008
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These findings IMO are invalid. Based upon just over 3 gallons used for the control, I will buy, seems kind of low for some 3.0s, but then the just over 1 gallon burnt to justify immense savings is well,... BS. I have read the theory and seem some people scamming out there, but I just do not feel as if this really works. If it were so great it would come on all cars and truck right now, as the automakers are gearing up for trying to reach the next CAFE standard.
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Old 05-13-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yetti96 View Post
These findings IMO are invalid. Based upon just over 3 gallons used for the control, I will buy, seems kind of low for some 3.0s, but then the just over 1 gallon burnt to justify immense savings is well,... BS. I have read the theory and seem some people scamming out there, but I just do not feel as if this really works. If it were so great it would come on all cars and truck right now, as the automakers are gearing up for trying to reach the next CAFE standard.
Sir you are entitled to your opinion. I could sit on the couch and say the world is flat. but instead I am trying something not sitting there and saying it won't work.
All the major car manufacturers ARE working on a system using Hydrogen. I made one for my vehicle.
Yes the test is limited, but if you read the title of this thread it says, INITIAL RESULTS. I have neither the time or resources to conduct an extensive test of say 1000's of miles. I have done several tests using the same roads and same circuit. this gives me a baseline to assess my improvements.
People have always been skeptical of new ideas and inovations throughout the centuries. There are doers and scoffers. If you had lived in the middle ages you would have said that taking a bath was inconcievable.
Leonardo da Vinci himself wrote all of his research in code so as not to be called a heretic or lunatic. I have shared what I have accomplished.
You said that you did research and FEEL it doesn't work, I on the other hand did my research and tried it out in the real world, AND IT DOES WORK!!!!!
you can sit there and pay for your gas , I will reap the benfits of my work. i figured the payback on this at $3.50 a gal. gas at about 2400 miles. What is gas prices now?????
OK , Rant off!!!
I WILL NOT REPLY TO ANY MORE negative comments, Unless they have personnally tried to do this.

MaxB

Last edited by MaxB; 05-13-2008 at 01:12 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-13-2008
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Well, he's right though that you haven't given any "robust data". How about running a few tanks and averaging more miles. I myself question your claims based on such a little bit of gas consumption since the pumps themselves have high variation in when the nozzle will kick off. You can't "precisely" fill a tank "blind" as we are when we fill it.

By the way, I'm investigating this for myself and I am NOT hostile to you -- but if you want to be credible present REAL data with a robust sample size or you're spitting in the wind around here.

So take this as a negative or not: but please provide your proof in a credible form or you will receive even more skepticism and it will be your own fault.

I like your install. You could clean up your control box a bit, lol -- but I've built things like it myself.

Why do you need to modify the oxygen sensor feedback? You are modifying the ratio -- can't this thing work without that? It's possible that you are going to damage your catalyst doing what you're doing and you are DEFINITELY violating federal emission laws. How do you deal with that? Turn it off, reset the PCM, and then go through emissions? That thing would never pass a "visual" in CA for instance. How do folks deal with this?

I'm not sure they'd even notice it here in PA though, lol. I have a friend who bought two kits and he's trying it and I will be next so eventually my own evaluation will be on here as well.

As I say: the only problem I have is the PCM feedback scaling. You can get more MPG WITHOUT HHO just by modifying your feedback to change your ratio. How much mileage increase do you get without changing the ratio and allowing the PCM to control for the same amount of O2 in the exhaust?
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  #23  
Old 05-13-2008
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OK lets talk the ford EEC V (eletronic engine control) It's response time is 2000 times faster than the EEC IV it replaced in 2002 (i think). It has a lot more input capabilites than the EEC IV, so what I am trying to do is keep it from dumping gas at lean mixture from the O2 sensors. A little background on O2 sensors, they oscilate a signal from 0 volts to 1.0 volts , the EEC V interprets this as too lean (0.1 V) to too rich at 0.8V. it makes the EEC dump more or less gas through the injectors. I has a 3 diminsional map on the eprom which it tries to maintain the engine in this map. But adding HHO gas into the mix makes the gasoline in the combustion process burn more effiently. (right now you engine is only using about 15% of the energy in gasoline.
By putting in HHO gas it burns at a better efficiency somewhere around 65-70%. When the gases exit the combustion chamber. They go past the O2 sensors (By the way ours are narrow band zirconium sensors. That's why the 0.1-1.0 volt output. Since the burn is more efficient the sensor sees it as a too lean mixture then telling the EEC to dump more fuel.
BUT you have already added fuel with the HHO gas so therfore you have to trick the EEC into thinking that you have the perfect (to it at least) fuel ratio of 14.7, so to do that you must add a small booster signal (~01-0.3 volts) to the O2 sensor inputs to the EEC. Yester day was a good day because for the first time I was able to do this and trick the EEC V on my truck.

As to the cat converter. The O2 sensors also control the temp in the Cats. They do this by see a to lean out put 0.1-0.2V as being lean. so what does the EEC V do? it dumps more gas to cool the Cat down.. hmmm dumping gas to cool the Cats... that's real mileage efficient HUH. But the HHO gas burns at a lower temp so it is not lean enough to hurt your Cats. Cats burn up with too high a temp, I know burnt some up letting a car idle too long once and caught the grass on fire underneath the vehicle.(luckily no damage).
I guess right now i am trying to trick the EEC V to see the o2 readings as normal, Today while doing another test run on a longer route, I turned off my O2 signal booster While running the HHO booster and within about 20 sec. I got a fault light saying O2 sensors were too lean.
Hope you can see where I am at. And what I am trying to accomplish without buying a complete new EEC V progam at $500 or more. I think it's doable.
As far as Fed law your not changing or altering the devices that are prohibited. Several members that have HHO gen. on their vehicles in Cal, SC (?), and several states have passed yearly tests with flying colors.

MaxB
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Old 05-13-2008
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I'm diggin' it!
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  #25  
Old 05-14-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxB View Post
Sir you are entitled to your opinion. I could sit on the couch and say the world is flat. but instead I am trying something not sitting there and saying it won't work.
All the major car manufacturers ARE working on a system using Hydrogen. I made one for my vehicle.
Yes the test is limited, but if you read the title of this thread it says, INITIAL RESULTS. I have neither the time or resources to conduct an extensive test of say 1000's of miles. I have done several tests using the same roads and same circuit. this gives me a baseline to assess my improvements.
People have always been skeptical of new ideas and inovations throughout the centuries. There are doers and scoffers. If you had lived in the middle ages you would have said that taking a bath was inconcievable.
Leonardo da Vinci himself wrote all of his research in code so as not to be called a heretic or lunatic. I have shared what I have accomplished.
You said that you did research and FEEL it doesn't work, I on the other hand did my research and tried it out in the real world, AND IT DOES WORK!!!!!
you can sit there and pay for your gas , I will reap the benfits of my work. i figured the payback on this at $3.50 a gal. gas at about 2400 miles. What is gas prices now?????
OK , Rant off!!!
I WILL NOT REPLY TO ANY MORE negative comments, Unless they have personnally tried to do this.

MaxB
Where are your data charts? It isnt negative. NO ONE posts data charts EVER. The videos are poorly made and many show instentaneous MPG meters that go by engine load and fuel flow. I can show an instentanious MPG jump by letting off the the throttle and coasting.

Post Data.

Post indisputable video.

I personally HAVE toyed with a system. 6 cells with bi-carbonate solution in a recycled battery box. It would flow over 1l/min and pulled about 20a. There was no noticable loss or gain from what the truck was normally getting. My uncle tested it on a trip from west palm beach to plant city, FL and saw no major deviation from what his truck normally gets (in the 17mpg range).

Auto companies are not looking into the same sort of hydrogen fuel that you are using. They are using hydrogen fuel cells. Basically using the redox reaction as a battery instead of a source of heat.
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