Hydrogen booster and inititial results - Page 2 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


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  #26  
Old 05-14-2008
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Sheesh dude, no need to get all up in arms about it. I am not attacking your credibility or knowledge, just the idea in general. I may not have said anything but then there are people in line ready to buy these things. I just cannot believe what people will buy into when the price of gas skyrockets. I understand, I myself drive 35k miles a year and it hurts every couple of days when I fill my tank. I really have nothing further to say if you are going to take this so personal. I shall instead keep my opinions to myself while everyone else out in the world is putting the oil company out of business with "Brown's Gas". Sorry bro you feel that way but good luck with that contraption.
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  #27  
Old 05-14-2008
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Hey the more people that buy less gas the better. supply/demand = less $$ in the pump for me!
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  #28  
Old 05-14-2008
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Just out of curiosity, how does this affect your power out put? I like the idea of better milage, but horsepower is king. If I can get both, sign me up!
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  #29  
Old 05-14-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yetti96 View Post
Sheesh dude, no need to get all up in arms about it. I am not attacking your credibility or knowledge, just the idea in general. I may not have said anything but then there are people in line ready to buy these things. I just cannot believe what people will buy into when the price of gas skyrockets. I understand, I myself drive 35k miles a year and it hurts every couple of days when I fill my tank. I really have nothing further to say if you are going to take this so personal. I shall instead keep my opinions to myself while everyone else out in the world is putting the oil company out of business with "Brown's Gas". Sorry bro you feel that way but good luck with that contraption.
Sir I appolgize , and am heartily sorry for loosing it , no reason, It's just that I was tired and been working on this system for months and endless hours of research and real work. This was the first run on this newer truck That I saw improvement. Granted my "test track" is only 22 miles. but it is the same track I use for every run (I have done 20-50 runs got the receipts), I can't afford to run a 200 mile test track for every time I change someting. If I get an improvement , then I do a longer test run. My old ranger and old bronco ( I have been working with HHO since the 70's), did not have the EEC V computer control that I have been trying to overcome. They got better mileage with the booster without the electronic tweeking.
It's frustrating to work for days and not see improvements, but when you do Ya get Excited.
I have never claimed, nor do I that this works. I just posted my findings. i personnally believe that I can get it working and reliable.

Someone asked about Data , it's on my legal pad, every run what was changed, how it worked, parameters from CAN OBDII live data. I haven't DL'ed it to my computer. I don't own a digi movie camera.
MaxB
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  #30  
Old 05-14-2008
D.
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AFR of 14.7?!?!? My Stoic readings ( when I data logged after correcting a detonation issue with my present motor ) ran from 11.75 to 12.5 when I put my foot into it.

Intresting concept your working with though. Keep up the work and I hope you attain the results your seeking.
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  #31  
Old 05-14-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnbaum13 View Post
Just out of curiosity, how does this affect your power out put? I like the idea of better milage, but horsepower is king. If I can get both, sign me up!
Seat of the pants here, I haven't noticed ANY loss of power, maybe a little gain. Like I said seat of the pants.
MaxB
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  #32  
Old 05-14-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. View Post
AFR of 14.7?!?!? My Stoic readings ( when I data logged after correcting a detonation issue with my present motor ) ran from 11.75 to 12.5 when I put my foot into it.

Intresting concept your working with though. Keep up the work and I hope you attain the results your seeking.
At 12.5 your right in the best power range. I am looking for fuel economy, that's why I am using 14.7 which is what my EEC V is using. Theorectically 15.2 is best economy. mine also drops to 11-12 AFR wwhen I drop the hammer. Not good for what I am aiming for.
MaxB
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  #33  
Old 05-14-2008
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i gotta admit, its pretty cool. you gotta be smart as hell to figure everything out!!
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  #34  
Old 05-14-2008
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I had 3 engine fault codes in todays testing, all O2 sensor codes. thes were sending me into open loop fuel, just like at cold start. This causes MORE fuel to be dumped by injectors.
Today as I tried to debug my O2 sensor enhancer, after countless hours and countless revisions on it (I think rev.10 at this point) I went ahead an ordered a dual sensor board from FuelSavers-MPG. It is on backorder but will post some results. After I get it and installed and dialed in. Sometimes I am pennywise and pound foolish. the cost of the board is less than I have spent on my home version. Live and learn.
Let you all know as things progress.
MaxB
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  #35  
Old 05-14-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ns_red7 View Post
Hey the more people that buy less gas the better. supply/demand = less $$ in the pump for me!
HA HA HAHA That's funny but true, the problem is that China has entered the demand arena BIG TIME. You will never see another downturn in gas prices. My son is in china right now and has been for 3 months. He says the changes In ALL the major cities there over the last 12 yrs the he has been going over there, is phenomenal. Luckily he was just in the city that had the big earthquake that killed 18000 people. he said that the Chinese believe numbers are luck or unlucky. And they believe that this is an omen toward the Olympics.
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  #36  
Old 05-14-2008
D.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxB View Post
At 12.5 your right in the best power range.
Actually, its about 9.5 to 10 for my setup. 12.5 to 13 is AVERAGE for myself all the time.

Quote:
I am looking for fuel economy, that's why I am using 14.7 which is what my EEC V is using.
Do you mean fuel effeciency?

Quote:
Theorectically 15.2 is best economy.
Actually.. on an SOHC Cologne engine, thats a ' lean condition ' in the making.

This might make you wonder a bit, and I will openly admit to idiocy before hand, but the SOHC engine does NOT like to run lean for long. Its a basic pig when it comes to fuel.

I've grenaded 2 SOHC's in ' toying around ' , one on a dyno and one that took out part of my hood.

I believe theres some merit in what your trying, but I think it would be easier and more reliable to just move to a T2.3 setup for the gains your setting for.

[/quote]mine also drops to 11-12 AFR wwhen I drop the hammer. Not good for what I am aiming for.
MaxB[/QUOTE]

Again, thats average for me :)
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  #37  
Old 05-26-2008
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Hey MaxB, I skimmed over the thread. Once you come out of the electrolisys tank with the HHO or browns gas That goes into a bubbler right? So After it leaves the bubbler will it go into another bubbler to act as a spark arrestor or directly into the intake? If you have a spark arrestor after the bubbler will you go into some details for me.

Ryan.
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  #38  
Old 05-26-2008
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Like Smack's booster design, I have a oneway valve then to the bubbler then directly to the air intake before the filter. I do leave the last hose loosely fitted so if somthing does backflash It has to go through my bubbler and one way valve to get to generator. At no point do I have a significant amount of HHO , hydroxy gas.
More safeties the better though, If you feel the need for an additional backflash preventer feel free.
MaxB
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  #39  
Old 05-26-2008
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As you know I did not have a lot of miles for long term testing.
I am now doing this.
One new change is that I have changed my O2 sensors voltage adder from my own circuit boards to one I purchased.

Voltage adder to the O2 sensors Dual

http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com

I did this when I could not get my style of voltage adders to stay at the 200mV I wanted to add.

The results were worth the cost of $70. It solved a lot of problems with ramp up and stability.

This was the only change I have done for a while.

here are the results from this one change.

Test 42 or so: booster on voltage adder on, Ammeter not working, but has
been about 9.5-10 amps up to 15A when warm.
52.9 miles driven/1.77 gal. Gas used = 29.887 MPG

29.88/19.88 baseline MPG= 1.5033
That means I got a 50% increase in mileage…

THAT IS SIGNIFICANT IN ANYONE”S BOOK!!!!!!!!!
I DO NOT expect to keep this % increase during long term testing. I believe it will level out somewhere below this. Your MPG increase will vary with engine size and driving habits, But I believe that all can get some benefits in MPG.
At this point I am going into long term daily driver testing for the mileage enhancements. More to results to follow.

At this point I am testing long term. On this tank (First one since last change) I notice that the fuel gage is only down to a 1/4 point at 130 miles. I know this is not good data. But at this many miles It is usually down to the 1/2 mark. I will continue with this untill the fuel light comes on and them again measure gal/miles driven. i will tell you all then.

MaxB

Last edited by MaxB; 05-26-2008 at 10:18 PM.
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  #40  
Old 05-30-2008
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Max, I'm not sure what data you are or are not recording and basing your findings on. You seem to have gathered quite a bit of interest in the subject and have been willing to spend your time and money putting it to the test.

Just keep in mind that warmer temps, fuel quality, tire pressures, wind vs vehicle speeds, and most importantly driver technique also play a part in actual fuel consumption. Most of those are not *repeatable* in the sort of testing you (or I) can do on the street.

Until this post I've not heard of this method of "boosting" milage. I suppose it is plausibe though.



Tell ya what, I'd like to help ya out a little bit. And I'd like to see you measure an additional parameter to offer proof that your not just leaning out the A/F. I'd like to see your EGTs running on booster and off.

I have a simple EGT guage thats not in use this summer. If your willing to drill a 1/8th hole in the exhaust pipe just up stream of a forward most 02 sensor, I send it to you for a back to back test. (they offer plugs for about $7 to fill the hole afterwards)

Hey, it's a very cheap way for you to prove that the gains are coming from the kit vs from just leaning out the mix. What do ya say?
(I'll even pay for return shipping)

Regards,
Rich

wydopnthrtl at yahoo.com
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  #41  
Old 05-31-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Max, I'm not sure what data you are or are not recording and basing your findings on. You seem to have gathered quite a bit of interest in the subject and have been willing to spend your time and money putting it to the test.

Just keep in mind that warmer temps, fuel quality, tire pressures, wind vs vehicle speeds, and most importantly driver technique also play a part in actual fuel consumption. Most of those are not *repeatable* in the sort of testing you (or I) can do on the street.

Until this post I've not heard of this method of "boosting" mileage. I suppose it is plausible though.



Tell ya what, I'd like to help ya out a little bit. And I'd like to see you measure an additional parameter to offer proof that your not just leaning out the A/F. I'd like to see your EGTs running on booster and off.

I have a simple EGT Gage thats not in use this summer. If your willing to drill a 1/8th hole in the exhaust pipe just up stream of a forward most 02 sensor, I send it to you for a back to back test. (they offer plugs for about $7 to fill the hole afterwords)

Hey, it's a very cheap way for you to prove that the gains are coming from the kit vs from just leaning out the mix. What do ya say?
(I'll even pay for return shipping)

Regards,
Rich

wydopnthrtl at yahoo.com
That is a very kind offer , I worry about increased EGT temps. I will probably put one on at some point. I don't want burnt valves. presently I just use a IF temp gage pointed at exhaust manifold (same points) I can get you some of that data later. I know thats not as accurate as EGT monitor but does give me a ballpark. It was borrowed so now to get my own. HaHA I have more money in monitoring equipment that the system itself. But as mentioned in earlier threads, I don't want to grenade the motor.
Ok I noticed very little temp difference at ex. manifold while idling and after running (get you #'s later). with booster system on and booster off.
With the voltage adder on , no booster, the engine stumbled very badly, telling me it was WAY too lean, so very short test. I turned the booster back on and engine smoothed out again. You have to remember that you are adding another type of fuel to the engine. You are not just leaning out the engine. It actually runs smoother with booster and EFIE on than stock.
You also have to realize that Hydroxy gas burns at a much lower temp that gas, I think that it may actually keep the cylinder temp down a bit by burning cooler. (This is not scientifically proven though).
As I mentioned in an earlier thread I got several engine errors due to O2 sensors saying i was running too lean. This was just booster and one earlier experimental EFIE (couldn't keep it at 200mV output it kept varying).
Not looking forward to dropping exhaust to put a bung in. HAHAHA

I Keep learning by you all asking questions.
MaxB

Last edited by MaxB; 05-31-2008 at 12:53 AM.
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  #42  
Old 06-03-2008
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The only way to tell if your running lean is to see actual exhaust gas temp while under load.

As soon as you let off the throttle the temps come down from 1100-1200 to 800ish before you even come to a stop.

btw, the first line of damage from running lean would be burning up the cats.

Also and somewhat interesting, with the SCT x-cal and a laptop you can see the infered exhaust valve temp. I'm not sure how it cals that one though? So.. I'm not confident it would give meaningful readings. But it would be interested to see what it says.

Rich
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