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  #1  
Old 05-20-2008
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Make your own ethanol

thought this was interesting. They say the cost nets out at $1.25 gallon not counting the equipment costs. 5 gallons per day:

http://www.efuel100.com/default.aspx
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Old 05-20-2008
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The $10,000 price tag of that unit would take a looooong time to pay for itself.
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Old 05-20-2008
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5 gallons a day with a $2 savings per gallon would be $10 a day saved. 1,000 days to recover the cost. Thats, what, 2.5 to 3 year payback?
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Old 05-20-2008
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hahaha 10-14 lbs of sugar to create 1 gal of gas !!! , Maby i am misinformed but that is ridiculous !
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Old 05-20-2008
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From the research I have done on making your own ethanol, most if not all kits like that have not gotten DOT approval to run the fuel made on the road. Not to mention that the extra tax you would have to pay since there is a road tax on ALL fuel sold to be ran on the road.

Those systems are also not in production yet. Seems like a scam to me since they are sold as pre-orders.


Ethanol also gives less fuel economy than gas and burns dirtier. I would assume that passing emissions is harder.
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Old 05-20-2008
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10lbs of sugar for 1gallon of ethanol?

I was going to build my own still by the goverment wouldnt give me approval. I was going to turn yard and garden scrap into ethanol for my truck. Straight distillation can only bring the concentration up to roughly 95%. Alcohol needs to anhydrous to dissolve gasoline.

In order to make the ethanol anhydrous you add and then filter out a chemical dehydrator such as Calcium Oxide. I dont know how this machiene works out to 1.25 a gallon and is self sustaining.
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Old 05-20-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifted97ranger View Post
Ethanol also gives less fuel economy than gas and burns dirtier. I would assume that passing emissions is harder.
Please dont repeat rumors if you have not done the research.

Ethanol does not nessicarily give less fuel economy. Ethanol contains less energy per kilogram so in an engine designed to run off of low octane gasoline, there will be a slight drop. However, E-85's equivilant octane rating is 110+. This means that it can be ran with more advanced timinng, higher compression, or a mix of both. Advancing the timing and raising the compression both increase the efficency of the engine. Thus, an engine that is designed to run E-85 may be constantly pushing the timing forward untill there is knocking and then retarding the timing back. When running ethanol the engine's timing will be more advanced and as a result will run more efficent giving equal fuel economy.

Ethanol does NOT burn dirtier. Part of the reason ethanol has lower energy content is because there are less bonds in an ethanol molecule than in one of the many molecules that make up gasoline. Also, ethanol already has oxygen with in the molecule. Oxygen, by thermodynamic deffanition, has an enthalpy of 0. The added oxygen and less bonds means a more complete burn. It will release less soot and carbon monoxide. Because the timing is more advanced the charge will burn hotter and it MAY release more NOx's out of the cylender head, but E-85 vehicles also have more catalytic converter to make up for this. My 3.0 Flex Fuel has 3 cats, one cat is all that is needed on most gasoline-only vehciles of similar engine displacement.
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Old 05-20-2008
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Using our food resources to produce a fuel source is redculious. If EVERY buschel of corn was used to produce ethanol, it would only produce roughly 25%-30% of the U.S.A.'s fuel needs. Tell me how it is "the fuel of the future" if it takes more material to produce it than the country is producing and what are we going to use for food?


That is like the Asians taking rice and making it into fuel.
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Old 05-20-2008
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OK...and land-bassed grain isnt the only thing that will produce ethanol...and that wasnt your statement. You were regurgitating rumors. I didnt mean for it to sound like I was comming down on you. I just feel that EVERY type of alternative fuel should be looked at fairly and all of the pros and cons discussed.

The propoganda agianst bio-fuels is matching that of the anti-drug propoganda the government fed us from the Regan administration up untill recently.
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Old 05-20-2008
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Originally Posted by CBFranger View Post
OK...and land-bassed grain isnt the only thing that will produce ethanol...and that wasnt your statement. You were regurgitating rumors. I didnt mean for it to sound like I was comming down on you. I just feel that EVERY type of alternative fuel should be looked at fairly and all of the pros and cons discussed.

The propoganda agianst bio-fuels is matching that of the anti-drug propoganda the government fed us from the Regan administration up untill recently.
Ah. Yes, another one that says, "Drugs are good! The government was just scaring you." Amazing how otherwise smart people work so hard to justify their drug use -- even to having to throw their message into completely disconnected discussions.

You're a mess, Chris. And learn to spell "R-E-A-G-A-N". Wasn't a fan, but I did at least live as an adult through his administration and they were right to beat the anti-drug drum.

At least you're right about bio fuels. They can be made from just about any plant matter but the problem is one of yield and efficiency. It's probably not a good idea to make them out of food stocks, as we are finding out.

Last edited by n3elz; 05-20-2008 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 05-20-2008
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I dont think anyone with any sort of logic is going to say drugs are good. But Marijuana doenst kill brain cells, hasnt been linked to cancer, and doesnt do nearly as much damage to the lungs as cigaretts. In fact, alcohol does more damage to the body over time. Ecstasy is actually quite safe. More people have a reaction to medicated drugs and die each year than die from MDMA or MDA. It also doesnt deplete your seratonin. Cocaine is not a one hit and you're and addict sort of drug. It isnt nearly as detramental to the body as was projected. Speed is just a higher dose of the drugs we feed our "ADHD" patients on a daily bassis. LSD is almost completely harmless. Granted it can cause mental truama and some people may have a flash back if they do experience a bad trip...but you are just as likely to have mental truama from a variety of other things.

The ban on Marijuana was because of racism and, get this, the hemp plant threatening the cotton industry...think about THAT when you listen to propoganda agianst bio fuels.
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  #12  
Old 05-20-2008
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Why dont we take Columbia's finest to make fuel in a way of disposing it?
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Old 05-20-2008
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This little "still" will have no impact on the agricultural industry. The grassroots people putting peanut oil in their diesel trucks haven't caused a shortage of french fries. lol.

It'll be interesting to see these out being used and how adaptable they are. Like taking peaches that fall on the ground and use them instead of sugar. Out here it's not unheard of for a person to have 200 peach trees. A creative person could scavenge someone elses waste and utilize it. Or- go clean off grandpas still and save the $10,000....
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  #14  
Old 05-20-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifted97ranger View Post
Using our food resources to produce a fuel source is redculious. If EVERY buschel of corn was used to produce ethanol, it would only produce roughly 25%-30% of the U.S.A.'s fuel needs. Tell me how it is "the fuel of the future" if it takes more material to produce it than the country is producing and what are we going to use for food?
That is like the Asians taking rice and making it into fuel.
That is why they have been designing stills that create plant alcohol(ehtanol) out of almost evry part of the plant, roots, stalk, even the leaves.

sugar beet plants have a much higher sugar/pound of material ratio than corn but corns is just easier to harvest and is more spread out than sugar beets

my uncle works at an ethanol plant, so he is always discussing this with my super republican dad.
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  #15  
Old 05-20-2008
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the stills are good if you believe in that stuff.

No one has answered or commented to my statement that the government will not allow them because they can't regulate and tax them. All fuel used for on road driving has a road tax. Anyone
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Old 05-20-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifted97ranger View Post
the stills are good if you believe in that stuff.

No one has answered or commented to my statement that the government will not allow them because they can't regulate and tax them. All fuel used for on road driving has a road tax. Anyone
bio diesel and wasteoil conversions are both legal and theyre unregulated... so im not sure what the deal is, what youre saying makes sense but im not sure if theres a loophole or something.



i still find it sketchy, depending on where you put that, i would not trust it and would be worried about having it explode or ignite.
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  #17  
Old 05-20-2008
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This is from their FAQ section. I cannot confirm/deny any of it but it addresses the questions asked here:


Is home ethanol production legal?

Home ethanol production is legal in the United States and most international countries. Americans have been manufacturing their own ethanol for more than 100 years. Consult with your local authorities if you have any concerns about purchasing and operating an ethanol distillation system on your property.

Do I need a permit to produce my own ethanol?

Yes. The U.S. Department of Treasury provides free permits for small property owners who want to produce less than 10,000 gallons of ethanol per year. Federal forms are available here. Property owners should also check on local and state requirements.

Is it legal to store fuel around the house?

Ethanol is a type of alcohol commonly found in and around household products. Most US gasoline grades contain some blend of ethanol which are stored in vehicles ranging from power mowers to cleaning solutions and medicines. As with other fuel-based or combustible consumer products, care must be taken to keep ethanol from flames and sources of extreme heat. Federal law requires that the actual ethanol production happen outside the home structure, and most government regulations require all fuels to be stored outside of home living structures.

Is ethanol safe to drink?

No! Like other fuels, ethanol is pure alcohol which is unsafe to consume.
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Old 05-20-2008
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Is ethanol safe to drink?

No! Like other fuels, ethanol is pure alcohol which is unsafe to consume.
lies, just dont drink it straight
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2008
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lol. I figured that would spark a debate.
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  #20  
Old 05-21-2008
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Save plants for eating. Learn to walk.... At least commute or ride a bicycle.
All I ever read and see is what the gov't, oil companies and farmers should do, not what each American can do to make a difference.
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Old 05-21-2008
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Save plants for eating. Learn to walk.... At least commute or ride a bicycle.
All I ever read and see is what the gov't, oil companies and farmers should do, not what each American can do to make a difference.
:werd:

When I am at college I ride my bike or my sector 9 EVERYWHERE.

Walmart, target, block buster, friends apartments that are with in a few miles, publix, taco bell, the mall, etc... But all are with in 3 miles of campus.

I live in a relatively rural area. Since I moved back for the summer my gas consumption has gone up 10 fold. Of course one day I got on my BMX and just started riding ditches and whatever I saw and ended up 8 miles from home.
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  #22  
Old 05-21-2008
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I just go to my g/fs dad and he gives me all the "ethanol" i want, for a price. And it is safe to drink straight. Just not too much too fast. And if your gonna build a still of your own, use copper. And for gods sake dont ever use an old car radiator as a condenser. Just my 2 cents as West by God Virginia hillbilly.
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  #23  
Old 05-21-2008
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All I ever read and see is what the gov't, oil companies and farmers should do, not what each American can do to make a difference.
Granted this is not on the market or proven, but wouldn't this be something each American could do to make a difference. If your in Texas, load up a bunch of rotten peaches. If your up north, load up a bunch of rotten apples?
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Old 05-21-2008
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Granted this is not on the market or proven, but wouldn't this be something each American could do to make a difference. If your in Texas, load up a bunch of rotten peaches. If your up north, load up a bunch of rotten apples?
grass clippings work well too though they also produce quite a bit of methanol which needs to be removed. Anything that is full of starch or sugar will give some sort of yeild.
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  #25  
Old 05-21-2008
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Ethanol is a consumable alcohol and is strictly controled by the fed gov. You can get a permit but expect to keep verifyable records as to the disposition of every drop of the ethanol. If not you may have to pay a whiskey tax on it. Every still has to be registered with the BATF and they come out and inspect you without advance notice.

I was going to make a still to make 10 or so gallons of whiskey a year and looked into it. After finding out all the hoops I had to jump through I decided to keep buying my whiskey at the store. I don't want Big Brother snooping around my place.

As stated Big Brother will collect a road tax from you as will your state/commonwealth. You will not escape the tax.

Now comes the energy to produce the ethanol go look up the energy consumption to produce a gallon of ethanol and the cost of the ingredients.

You will be required to add at least 15% gasoline to the ethanol to make it legal in the USA. There are foreign countries that allow 100% ethanol fuel.
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