Miracle for Fuel Economy? - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


General Ford Ranger Discussion General discussion of the Ford Ranger that does not fit in any other sub-forum.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 09-24-2005
jrodhotrod's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 67
Miracle for Fuel Economy?

Hey Guys,

Since we are all suffering from the recent meteroic rise in gas prices I thought I would share this here. It's a post that was made in the Mazda forum that I participate in on a regular basis for my car and so far all the discussion has been good. We have even had some guys do some emissions testing and EGT testing and emissions went down and EGTs remained the same. Check it out:

I'll be giving it a try in the B4000 to see what happens.

Saw this post on another forum...


interesting info: [urlhttp://peswiki.com/energy/Directory:Acetone_as_a_Fuel_Additive[/url]

up to 35% increase reported. Acetone said to improve the fuel's ability to vaporize completely by eliminating the surface tension that causes an increase in particulate vaporization temperature. (PESN; March 18, 2005)

more info: http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/faq.htm
even MORE info: http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
and an FAQ: http://peswiki.com/energy/Directory:...l_Additive:FAQ

basically.. it helps break up the surface tension of gasoline and helps it vaporize easier. Add 1-3 ounces acetone per 10 gallons of gas. So is this all BS or does it really work?

http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/additive.htm

Discussion on http://www.msprotege.com :

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120640

Last edited by jrodhotrod; 09-24-2005 at 11:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-24-2005
jtslmn720's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kent State, Kent Ohio
Posts: 7,367
if someone does it first and nothing happens to the fuel lines in a year, ill start to do it... do they sell ethonal anywhere so i can amke my own e85?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-24-2005
graniteguy's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,221
jhotrod, someone in my area on a Mustang forum decided to be the guinnea pig and mileage went up 4mpg the last I looked. That is not shabby. I would have no worries on fuel lines. Think of the dilution rate.

Here is the link:

http://www.austinareastangs.com/aass...wtopic&t=28420
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-24-2005
jtslmn720's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kent State, Kent Ohio
Posts: 7,367
hmm and i have the flexfuel so i got those super durable fuel lines anyways, i may have to try it... he said he put the acetone in when before he went to get gas... think its safe to do it after you fill up, jsut so you dont pump all the acetone through first?

he used 93 tho, so would running 87 matter?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-24-2005
n3elz's Avatar
RF Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kennett Square, PA
Posts: 10,620
The first link in the first post takes me to a page without text, just top and left banners.

Edit: Also, the first post in the last link is the same as the first post here. Question: is this some kind of promotion or did you just cut and paste that information? That first link is broken over there also.

Last edited by n3elz; 09-24-2005 at 09:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-24-2005
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: So Cal/SLO Cal, California
Posts: 1,192
I'd like to get more information on this, anyone wanna lab rat for us?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-24-2005
jtslmn720's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kent State, Kent Ohio
Posts: 7,367
not it, i just got my truck and dont wanna screw it up...

ranger tested
Continued testing results of Vehicle 1and 2

Last weekends road trip in the Ranger Extreme was a mixed bag of results.

Vehicle 1 Ford Ranger Extreme 4x4 Long distance results.

Miles driven 314. 95% Interstate at 70mph. 5% town driving with at least two stops a day over the three day weekend going to and from knife show and the hotel and resturant.

Gallons of regular 87 octane Citgo used was 14 gallons

Acetone ratio of 2.5 ounces to 10 gallon.

Mileage 22.43MPG.

Mileage increase over base of 17mpg: 5.43MPG. Aprox. 32% increase

Weather conditions not optimum for fuel mileage testing. Rain and showers all weekend and very high head winds on the homeward leg. I am not certain to how much effect the headwinds had in reducing mileage. But the head winds were over 40 mph with higher gusts. This had to reduce mileage to some extent. I did notice that on the first leg of the trip mileage seemed to be good but we didn't refuel until we arrived home so all I can report are the numbers as they are.

I have raised the ammount of acetone to 3 ounces per 10 gallons in the next tank full. Most of this driving will be local though.

This is still a marginal improvement over the first test run which gave something like 21.7 miles per gallon at a 2oz. to 10 gal ratio.

All driving was done with the tail gate lowered to reduce air drag at high speeds.

The 22.43 mpg in this vehicle while not as good as hoped so far, this is far better than ever achieved in this vehicle at any time since I owned it. This mileage is about 2.4 miles a gallon above the EPA fuel useage listed for this vehicle for highway driving. Considering that this test also had the high wind, rain and three days of in town short distance driving, this is not terrible in my opinion especially for an off road edition 4x4 pickup truck.

Last edited by jtslmn720; 09-24-2005 at 09:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-24-2005
n3elz's Avatar
RF Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kennett Square, PA
Posts: 10,620
One more thing that makes me suspicious: even the most "expert" articles linked by people (and I've googled it -- theres a lot out there on it) all talk like this:

"Big Oil doesn't want you to know..."
"Lubricant manufacturers would lose billions..."
"Your mechanic is afraid to lose business..."

...as reasons why you don't know about this already. That appeal to paranoia and the suggestion that there is a big conspiracy about this is what makes me wonder. Most stuff like that is just selling you "snake oil" in my experience.

It's interesting and I'm not enough of a chemist to comment -- but theoretically reducing surface tension or inter-molecular cohesion WOULD increase vaporization and reduce droplet size. All good things for making a combustible mixture of air and fuel.

I'm going to see what I can find in "real" expertise that isn't from the goofy conspiracy theory fringe on this.

Edit: From the "smart gas" article linked (by Louis LaPointe):

Please do not think there is just one thing to do for great mileage. A number of things must be done and these are outlined in other SmartGas articles. The right spark plugs are NGK. The right oil is Torco. The right thermostat is 195. The right oil filter is Baldwin, etc

Wanna' bet he sells all that stuff, lol?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-24-2005
jtslmn720's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kent State, Kent Ohio
Posts: 7,367
i agree with you john, it sounds like that guy that does those natural cure infomercials....

i might think about doing it just because of the fact that i have the flex fuel, fuel system so my lines and other parts should be able to handle it, if it is infact not to good for your lines

addon:

your prob right, but what hes talking about is getting the most milage possible, i think that this will just increase it some, which wouldnt be bad... hes just trying to push the products on us so that "we will get the best possible milage"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-24-2005
Red_Ak_Ranger's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 17,221
Also he does the thing where he is nice enough to tell you percentage gains.

For example, up to 35% can be gained with Acetone.

and..

15-30% gain by using his brand of oil.

So if you hedge your bets right you can get 65% increased fuel mileage.

Yah..no

Aaron
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-24-2005
jtslmn720's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kent State, Kent Ohio
Posts: 7,367
^ uhhh no, you dont add the percents together, you take another 30% after that 35% gain... so if you get 10mpg then increase 35% and now your at 13.5mpg... then you take 30% of 13.5
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-24-2005
n3elz's Avatar
RF Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kennett Square, PA
Posts: 10,620
Still, here's a link to an thread where someone with some chemical knowlege points out that Mr. LaPointe doesn't know what he's talking about even after 50 years of it. It's chemistry. You kind of have to read it way down. Most of the posts are short and not informative, but there's a couple of gems here:

http://digg.com/science/Increase_you..._using_Acetone

I'm looking around for more.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-24-2005
Red_Ak_Ranger's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 17,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x4XLT
^ uhhh no, you dont add the percents together, you take another 30% after that 35% gain... so if you get 10mpg then increase 35% and now your at 13.5mpg... then you take 30% of 13.5
Oh sweet, that makes it sound even more real. Oh BTW, I can't reopen the thing, but I don't think it said "an additional 15-30%" did it?

But hey man, ignore me, you rock out your super increased gas mileage. I'll just drive up to ANWR and drill my own lil oil well.

Aaron
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-24-2005
jtslmn720's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kent State, Kent Ohio
Posts: 7,367
lol thats like a big flame fest in the last 3 posts... i dunno what to believe...

i highly doubt that it will do much if any damage because of the trace amounts you add...

ur confusing the hell out of me john, where do u stand on this? do you think itll work or no?

i cant remeber and it wont open for me either...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-24-2005
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fuquay Varina, NC
Posts: 3,048
john ill try it in my truck, tell me how much to mix and hell, ill do it


its a company truck anyway
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-24-2005
FauX's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 992
Hell i'll do it.
Just let me know what I need to do, where I need to get it and i'll be a lab rat.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-24-2005
Red_Ak_Ranger's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 17,221
If I had my truck here I'd try it out since I have the stronger fuel lines.

Hey Bob, why don't ya try buying your fuel line and make a mixture of gasoline and acetone(a ratio equal to how much you put in a gas tank) and then pour it in the fuel line. Measure innner width of teh fuel line before and then after, and see if acetone eats fuel lines badly. One of the articles had a guy who said it would, so it might be interesting to know.

Aaron
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-24-2005
n3elz's Avatar
RF Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kennett Square, PA
Posts: 10,620
lol! I don't know.

I believe that it may be possible to make gas vaporize into smaller droplets by reducing "surface tension", "cohesion" or whatever. That's a given.

Does simple acetone do that? I don't know yet.

Certainly, LaPointe's idea that it's an octane booster is silly since the molecule is not an "octane". But hey, let's not quibble -- he may not be that educated even if he's right (which happens sometimes with "inventor types"). The EFFECT could be much like increasing the octane, which is different literally, but not as far as what you would perceive as a driver.

So I stand SOLIDLY in the "I don't know yet" corner!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-24-2005
n3elz's Avatar
RF Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kennett Square, PA
Posts: 10,620
3 oz per 10 gallons, Bob. Be sure and get only "100% pure, organic acetone"...(that's a joke since chemically acetone is an "organic" molecule, lol...okay nobody gets it...)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-24-2005
jtslmn720's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kent State, Kent Ohio
Posts: 7,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundPer4mance
john ill try it in my truck, tell me how much to mix and hell, ill do it


its a company truck anyway
3oz per 10gal of gas....

do you know our current gas milage?

Quote:
So I stand SOLIDLY in the "I don't know yet" corner!
ill keep you company until bob gets back to us lol
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-24-2005
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fuquay Varina, NC
Posts: 3,048
i aint doin nothing till griggs gives the word, or wenzinger, but this isnt in electrical so he wont even see it
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-24-2005
Red_Ak_Ranger's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 17,221
John, doesn't Acetone burn better also? As in more pure? Altho that wouldn't be that big of a difference if so. I vote we just all use boat gasoline, it's cheaper :D

Aaron
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-24-2005
n3elz's Avatar
RF Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kennett Square, PA
Posts: 10,620
Avgas baby!

Okay, another good discussion with logical points about it that are good:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...g/16182770.cfm

Still no solid scientific tech data...
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-24-2005
jtslmn720's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kent State, Kent Ohio
Posts: 7,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundPer4mance
i aint doin nothing till griggs gives the word, or wenzinger, but this isnt in electrical so he wont even see it
lol whats the worst that can happen, so you burn through ur fuel lines and the company finds out that you added acetone and then they fire you and make you pay for repairs...

seems worth it to me lol...but it may just work so we never know....
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-24-2005
n3elz's Avatar
RF Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kennett Square, PA
Posts: 10,620
Finally, a REAL chemical discussion!

http://www.chemicalforums.com/index....;threadid=2517

Haven't read it all yet. Have at it.

Edit: Popping up in "real" media presentations here and there -- no conclusions

http://www.kptv.com/Global/story.asp...0&nav=aXwJYZQB

Edit: This is funny -- especially for post-graduate degree folks:

http://mobjectivist.blogspot.com/200...s-pending.html

Edit: A set of user reported results -- biased? Real? Who knows?

http://peswiki.com/energy/Directory:..._Additive#Ford

Edit: This one is from the "Pure Energy Systems" folks again. The author admits HE experienced no gain from it. But there are other interesting discussions as well.

http://pesn.com/2005/04/12/6900080_Acetone_and_Ester/

I'm tired. I think I might get a small bottle and try it. A few times at those concentrations can't hurt -- but what if it works? Should I keep using it? Will it damage anything? I'm so conflicted...

Last edited by n3elz; 09-24-2005 at 11:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuel Economy jaycheetwood 4.0L OHV & SOHC V6 Tech 1 09-15-2008 10:21 AM
new average fuel economy numbers LILBLUE04FX4L2 General Ford Ranger Discussion 6 02-23-2007 12:52 PM
better fuel economy? GubNi SOHC - 2.3L & 2.5L Lima Engines 7 01-21-2007 01:26 PM
Parking Brake light is ON!!!! Miracle?!? KnightRider General Technical & Electrical 6 07-29-2005 05:33 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:12 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.