Miracle for Fuel Economy? - Page 2 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


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  #26  
Old 09-24-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x4XLT
lol whats the worst that can happen, so you burn through ur fuel lines and the company finds out that you added acetone and then they fire you and make you pay for repairs...

seems worth it to me lol...but it may just work so we never know....
my dad owns the company, and i get paid too well to risk it
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  #27  
Old 09-24-2005
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how does 100% acetone have water in it tho? and wouldnt it kinda evaporite from the heat?


k well im going to sleep so you guys keep working on this and ill check back tom morning...
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  #28  
Old 09-24-2005
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It's going to look really weird sitting at the gas pump pouring acetone into the tank before I fill up, but the increase in milage sounds well worth it. Using Acetone 3oz at time will last a long time making the cost negligable. I'm hadly a chemlical expert but I can't see that small amount of acetone having any noticable effect on the fuel lines, and 5% water in a .15% mixture is nothing. I probably get more moisture in the tank by opening the cap on a humid day.

I'm willing to give this a try too.... after someone else does first :)
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  #29  
Old 09-24-2005
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Do you know what every seal, hose and O-ring in your fuel system is made of? Design engineers select the correct material for each application based on its anticipated use.

Here are some compatability ratings for unleaded gasoline, ethanol and acetone when used with a few common automotive materials. As you can see, some materials and chemicals work better together than others. The point is that you are running a gamble when you introduce a highly reactive chemical like acetone that was outside of the original design intent.

Of particular concern is the "D" rating for Viton with acetone. I can just about guarantee you that your Ranger's fuel system has several components made of Viton, one of the most common sealing materials used today. Although Viton is very tolerant of gasoline and ethanol, it does not like acetone.




Buna-N:
Gasoline: A
Ethanol: C
Acetone: D

Viton:
Gasoline: A
Ethanol: A
Acetone: D

Teflon (PTFE):
Gasoline: A
Ethanol: A
Acetone: A

Neoprene:
Gasoline: B
Ethanol: A
Acetone: C


A = Excellent.

B = Good -- Minor Effect, slight corrosion
or discoloration.

C = Fair -- Moderate Effect, not recommended
for continuous use
. Softening, loss of strength,
swelling may occur.

D = Severe Effect, not recommended for ANY use.


http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/chemcomp.asp

Last edited by V8 Level II; 09-24-2005 at 11:14 PM.
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  #30  
Old 09-24-2005
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Wow lots of discussion, reading through now...

Yes, I just copied and pasted the link. I have been reading through a twiki on the matter and it has lots of folks experiences document there, check it out.

http://peswiki.com/energy/Directory:..._Fuel_Additive

Yes, the language of the reports made me suspiciuos as well, but several guys on the Protege forum have been experimenting with it and so far the results are good.
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  #31  
Old 09-24-2005
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Also... just read the links were broken in the first post, those are now fixed.

EDIT!

Just got through reading, great links on the chemical discussion and just like the folks here, the jury is out on damage.

If you read through the twiki with user experiences you have seen some folks doing their own experiments with acetone/fuel mixes, pure acetone, and soaking various fuel components in them. So far the worst thing I have read is a slight, swelling of gaskets in a pure acetone mix. I haven't yet read of negative effects from a mixture that reflects what is actually in your tank.. IIRC it's something like 99.2% Gas .8% Acetone or something to that effect. for 3oz per 10 gallons. I haven't done the math, I am just going on memory.

In summary there are some chemical guys on the Protege forums that are looking into it and many guys have been posting the results of their own experiences and so far no negative reports there.

Last edited by jrodhotrod; 09-24-2005 at 11:14 PM.
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  #32  
Old 09-24-2005
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I know people who use Toluol or Toluene as a fuel injector cleaner, not that has anything to do with the topic. I think I remember hearing that they add it to F1 fuel to increase octane.

Last edited by ScottyEric; 09-24-2005 at 11:39 PM.
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  #33  
Old 09-24-2005
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From what Bob W. is saying, that could be a problem even for a flex fuel Ranger. It would appear that Viton or Teflon would be the material of choice for an ethanol fueled engine.

Guess that's why acetone makes such a DANDY solvent, lol.
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  #34  
Old 09-24-2005
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Negative results in great detail:

http://pesn.com/2005/03/25/6900071_Acura_Acetone/

And more discussion (I was going to bed...oh well)...

http://www.woodalls.com/cforum/index...d/16165280.cfm

How about the BBC? A British perspective on a forum:

http://focusmag.infopop.cc/groupee/f...2/m/7721000931
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  #35  
Old 09-25-2005
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You slept last week. Keep going, you're doing great!

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  #36  
Old 09-25-2005
D.
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We used to make Acetone Peroxide bombs and blow things up in LZ BlueBird at Camp Lejeune.

We would have to add ammonia and ' heavy/hard ' water to the mix in order to make the combustion/burn rate excel enough to blow the ' pipe ' or casing. VERY HARD explosions. Would make 2 foot deep/10 foot wide holes you could park a Hummer in.

I wouldn't try putting Acetone in my tank. It won't boost Octane. If anything, I think it would eat up all the lines and gaskets in the fuel system. 3 fluid OZ per 10 gallons...

I have some fuel line laying around... I should take a half OZ of like nail-polish remover and do a proportioned test and take pics , see what it does...

Anyone intrested?
D.
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  #37  
Old 09-25-2005
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I wouldn't use nail polish remover -- it's dilute acetone. Go get the pure stuff at a hardware store.
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  #38  
Old 09-25-2005
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so john i never read any of your links, should i try it or not?
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  #39  
Old 09-25-2005
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Nah, they all link to **** sites...

(hey, suddenly everyone's clicking my links...go figure...)
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  #40  
Old 09-25-2005
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You dirty old man!

I think it sounds like a great idea, I'm just going to be the first one to dump it in my tank and be a lab monkey.
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  #41  
Old 09-25-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
We used to make Acetone Peroxide bombs and blow things up in LZ BlueBird at Camp Lejeune.

We would have to add ammonia and ' heavy/hard ' water to the mix in order to make the combustion/burn rate excel enough to blow the ' pipe ' or casing. VERY HARD explosions. Would make 2 foot deep/10 foot wide holes you could park a Hummer in.

I wouldn't try putting Acetone in my tank. It won't boost Octane. If anything, I think it would eat up all the lines and gaskets in the fuel system. 3 fluid OZ per 10 gallons...

I have some fuel line laying around... I should take a half OZ of like nail-polish remover and do a proportioned test and take pics , see what it does...

Anyone intrested?
D.
just make sure taht its the proper ratio of 3oz per 10gal... so just let it soak in 1gal of gas with .3 oz of acetone


i say we have redneckstone do it, cuz hes going to be getting rid of his truck in less then a year (i think) anyways so if it does cause problems, it wont be while he has it
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  #42  
Old 09-25-2005
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Hey scotty, I used used that toluene as an injector cleaner but some one told a way to make it work quicker and more effective. So I tired trinitrate toluene and wow the difference was amazing, lol.
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  #43  
Old 09-25-2005
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This same discussion has been on the Jeep Cherokee Forums for quite some time.....
I have conducted tests on my '00 Ranger 4.0L for several tank fulls adding 2 oz per 10 gallons and have driven highway and city miles....
Mileage went up 1 mpg....
According to the articles.... the results are different between vehicles.
Recently received the registration renewal for my 98 Jeep Cherokee along with a requirement for SMOG TEST ONLY.... Decided to conduct an ACETONE test of my own to see what adding 4 oz to 20 gallons would do...
Drove the Jeep around for several hours doing errands prior to going in for the SMOG test....
Last time the Jeep was tested... the vehicle passed with emissions in the middle between Average and Maximum PPM... This time the emissions were right at average or slightly less....
I was AMAZED in the emissions reduction from last time....
While I have not noticed much increase in MPG on my Ranger... I have noticed quite a drop in emissions on the Jeep.....

OR 4x4
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  #44  
Old 09-25-2005
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have you noticed any bad effects to your jeep/truck
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  #45  
Old 09-25-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x4XLT
have you noticed any bad effects to your jeep/truck

I would surmise "No" since he never said anything bad happened. He would've been like "poured some in the jeep, emissions went down because the gas lines burned away and it couldn't start".

Aaron
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  #46  
Old 09-26-2005
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No ill affects yet, but as RWenzing posted about the Buna and Viton O rings not liking Acetone.... really makes you think !!!

OR 4x4
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  #47  
Old 09-26-2005
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Giving it a try in the B4000 and in the '95 Intrepid I am driving while my car is in the shop for finishing touches on upgrades.

My wife is the one driving the B4000 most of the time so whether there is an additive in the tank or not will be unknown to her when driving.
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  #48  
Old 09-26-2005
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I guess I didn't make it clear enough in my last post.



Viton is not chemically compatible with acetone.

The O-ring seals on your injectors and fuel system connections are made of Viton.

Your fuel system runs at high pressure.




Not a pretty picture, IMO.

Before you blindly pour a known O-ring solvent in your fuel tank, take a few minutes to do a Google search. You will find hundreds of warnings against using Viton O-rings and seals to contain acetone.

This information is not someone's opinion on a public automotive forum. It is known chemical fact.

Viton is an excellent material for containing automotive fuels like gasoline and ethanol. But, according to every compatibility chart I could find, ketones like acetone should never be used with fluoroelastomers like Viton.

The concentration level of the acetone is not the basic issue. It is not necessarily a question of what happens in 3 days or 3 weeks but what happens in 3 years.

Do a Google search:
http://www.google.com/search?q=viton...&start=30&sa=N

Viton - Do Not Use With These Fluids: acetone, H2S, hot water, amines
http://www.pspglobal.com/polymers-elastomers.html

Viton - Acetone/Severe effect,not recommended
http://www.kimble-kontes.com/pdfs/so...tibility_1.pdf
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  #49  
Old 09-26-2005
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Excellent point. Shame though if it works, lol.
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  #50  
Old 09-26-2005
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The experiments I conducted were over a 6 week period and the ONLY noticable improvement was with emissions....
Knowing what acetone can do to viton O-rings... I have decided to discontinue testing..... Not worth the chance of an engine fire !!!

OR 4x4
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