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Suspension Tech General discussion of suspension for the Ford Ranger.

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  #1  
Old 10-25-2004
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The Grudge

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i have the 51 series rock crawler extreme steel wheels and im just saving money for tires then im doing exhaust and eventually whipple[/img]
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2004
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Lift is good :D .
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  #3  
Old 10-26-2004
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It isn't technically a lift though.
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Old 10-26-2004
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Cranking the torsion bars to gain 1-1.5" of lift is not a lift how?
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Old 10-26-2004
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from daveandjulie: It wouldn't make any difference what you do with the preload on the torsion bars, you can fit the same size tires whether you mess with the preload or not. All you've done is affect the ride height by increasing the preload on the spring. And all that does is change where the suspension sits in the suspension cycle when it is static. It doesn't change anything about the original suspension travel as those points are all still exactly the same as they were before. When you bottom your suspension it, and whatever tire you have, will be in the same place no matter what the preload on the spring is.

You've increased driveline angles, if you have 4wd which will wear the cv joints sooner, decreased ride quality, decreased the suspensions ability to absorb road imperfections, and reduced traction and braking efficiency because the suspension does hot have sufficient static sag and therefore limited or no downtravel.

Playing with the t-bars has only negative effects as far as suspension functionality goes, the only arguably positive thing that comes from it is purely asthetic.
best way i can sum it up...
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  #6  
Old 10-26-2004
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well, amazingly i couldn't fit the 32's on my truck until i cranked the t-bars... and they rubbed, so we cranked a little more, and now they don't rub...
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Old 10-26-2004
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It looks good now. :)
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  #8  
Old 10-26-2004
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So leveling coils or leveling spacers on a TTB are not a lift? Because all it does it change the hieght of the suspension when it is static? It does not increase your flex or suspension travel anymore because you are still being limited by the stock axle pivot brackets, radius arms, and such? But you said you can fit the same size tires with or without a crank of the torsion bar, Trevelyn said he fit 32's with the crank and leveling spacers on a gen 3 will allow 33x10.50s with no rubbing. So I still am confused with this not being a "lift". It's not a "lift kit" for sure, but increasing the ride height seems like it would consitute a lift. And you did say cranking the T bars is a result from this...

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I just don't know much about the 98+ IFS suspension and learning more never hurts :) .
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  #9  
Old 10-26-2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevelyn1015
well, amazingly i couldn't fit the 32's on my truck until i cranked the t-bars... and they rubbed, so we cranked a little more, and now they don't rub...
There are two possible explinations for that. It could be because you have increased the spring rate so much that the suspension no longer flexes enough during the impacts experienced in your normal driving so that the tire never moves far enough to rub. Or it could be that the tires didn't fit when the suspension was in the area of the cycle that it was with the stock preload setting, and now that you've changed it they will fit. In either case, the tire will still rub exactly as it did before if the suspension is subjected to the right load to move to the place in its cycle where the tire will rub.

The point I am trying to make it that the torsion bar is not a ride height adjustment, it is a spring preload adjustment. It does affect the ride height of the vehicle, but it does so with consequences to the spring rate. A real ride height adjustment does nothing but change the ride height, the preload on the spring itself is unaffected. Stock Rangers do not have that feature.

Only negative things come from adjusting the preload on the torsion bar, I can't think of anything functionally positive.
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Old 10-26-2004
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Originally Posted by Lone Ranger 93
So leveling coils or leveling spacers on a TTB are not a lift? Because all it does it change the hieght of the suspension when it is static? It does not increase your flex or suspension travel anymore because you are still being limited by the stock axle pivot brackets, radius arms, and such? But you said you can fit the same size tires with or without a crank of the torsion bar, Trevelyn said he fit 32's with the crank and leveling spacers on a gen 3 will allow 33x10.50s with no rubbing. So I still am confused with this not being a "lift". It's not a "lift kit" for sure, but increasing the ride height seems like it would consitute a lift. And you did say cranking the T bars is a result from this...

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I just don't know much about the 98+ IFS suspension and learning more never hurts :) .
Basically, no matter how the T-bar is adjusted, its NEVER going to change the highest and lowest travel points for the suspension, thus its not a lift in the conventional sense. Its the equivalent of changing spring rates so that *AT REST* the truck sits up higher, but the suspension will still have full range of travel, and bigger wheels will STILL bottom out sooner when flexing or driving off-road. Only changing the actual mounting point of the wheel relative the vehicle frame constitutes a suspension lift. Thats why I would argue that a spindle lift is a genuine lift, although it doesn't modify the suspension, it moves the mounting point of the wheel lower, having the same desired effect.
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Old 10-26-2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave and Julie
There are two possible explinations for that. It could be because you have increased the spring rate so much that the suspension no longer flexes enough during the impacts experienced in your normal driving so that the tire never moves far enough to rub. Or it could be that the tires didn't fit when the suspension was in the area of the cycle that it was with the stock preload setting, and now that you've changed it they will fit. In either case, the tire will still rub exactly as it did before if the suspension is subjected to the right load to move to the place in its cycle where the tire will rub.

The point I am trying to make it that the torsion bar is not a ride height adjustment, it is a spring preload adjustment. It does affect the ride height of the vehicle, but it does so with consequences to the spring rate. A real ride height adjustment does nothing but change the ride height, the preload on the spring itself is unaffected. Stock Rangers do not have that feature.

Only negative things come from adjusting the preload on the torsion bar, I can't think of anything functionally positive.
Agreed! but.... I'm still confused why an increase in ride height is not a "lift" as you stated earlier. Let's say Trevelyn was just nipping the fenders with 32's at stock height. Cranking the T bars could of possibly gave just enough "lift" to clear the fenders, therefore no more rubbing.

On that note about negative things a result from this, I totally agree with ya there! Ford did not intend for their rangers to be modified, among others, so would it be safe to assume any major modification will adversely affect the behavior of the truck because Ford did not intend for the vehicle to be subject to this sort of modifcation?
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2004
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It's not really a Ford thing per se. It's a general suspension thing. You need a certain amount of static sag (roughly 30%) for a suspension to perform well. If you put so much preload into the spring that the suspension sits at the top of it's travel you'll have no static sag, no down travel. You need down travel to get the best performance.
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  #13  
Old 10-26-2004
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The ONLY positive thing, and there is one, is the extra ground and tire clearance. Other than that I agree. However, mine are cranked about an inch anyway and that puts the ride height measurement right at the top of the Ford spec, as they measure it.
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  #14  
Old 10-26-2004
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Hopefully the guy who created this post learned a thing or 2 also!
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Old 10-26-2004
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Hopefully everyone who reads this is learning a thing or two!
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  #16  
Old 10-26-2004
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this is funny
Ford says that up to one inch of front suspension droop is normal within the first 500 miles on there torsion bar trucks!
i leveled mine back out at 2500 miles, and again at 10,000 miles, at 13,000 miles the front is sagging again a tad.
i can see new explorer bars are in my future, unless sway-a-way starts making some for rangers soon!
it doest hurt anything if you tighten them up from time to time, just dont "crank them all the way"
i personaly would like to see some hard facts as to when you should never adjust the preload on torsion bars!

on most older GM IFS 4x4's adjusting preload is part of the front end alignment!

Dave?
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  #17  
Old 10-26-2004
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Of course if they droop the bars should be adjusted to put the front end back in spec.
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  #18  
Old 10-26-2004
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heres my deffinition step one

Go take a messuring tape put the end on the ground "beside front tire" extend tape until u reach the fender
step 2 scrible down the number u got...now go twist ur t bars and take the number again.......

if it's higher than it was when u first did it wala lifted lol
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  #19  
Old 10-26-2004
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PIC REQUEST: Switches!

That's a lousy procedure. Move the truck and bounce the suspension before making the second measurement or you may have problems and get more than you want!
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  #20  
Old 10-26-2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 EDGE
i personaly would like to see some hard facts as to when you should never adjust the preload on torsion bars!
For you I will change my wording so that "you shouldn't mess with the torsion bars" is now "the torsion bars should only be adjusted as neccessary to keep them within the manufacturers specifications".

We already agree that they should not be adjusted until the bolt bottoms out.

I haven't looked, but does the Ford spec call for at ride height bushing installation for the front end? Adjusting the torsion bar preload also twists the bushings which can cause premature failure.
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  #21  
Old 10-26-2004
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No, as far as I've seen only the t-bar twist is used.
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  #22  
Old 10-27-2004
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I am going to have to crank mine, I am actually starting to get some negative camber going on. You can see that both of the front tires are tilted in at the top a little. Just enough to bug the heck out of me. What are these explorer torsion bars that you speak of? This sounds interesting.
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  #23  
Old 10-29-2004
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You can get Explorer Sport Trac torsion bars, I would get load rating B. They are about a hundred bucks for the pair and bolt right up.
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