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Suspension Tech General discussion of suspension for the Ford Ranger.

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  #1  
Old 02-09-2005
optikal illushun's Avatar
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SAS for t-bars

Using a D35 from a cherokee, the t-bar mounts for radius arm brackets and exploder TTB coil buckets...how would one use the rack n pinion steering and adapt it to the steering linkage? and where would be track bar mount?

this is just hypothetical...
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2005
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you wouldnt be able to use the rack and pinion steering anymore. youde have to get a steering box out of something else and hook it up to the column and mount it on the frame somewhere. then youde have to get a drop pitman arm and connect the tie rods.



why the hell would you want a D35 from a cherokee???? those axles are ****.
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Old 02-09-2005
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i agree the axles are weak i broke one when my jeep was only running 31's...
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  #4  
Old 02-09-2005
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How would you connect a straight axle to a set of torsion bars anyhow? Unless I'm mistaken, torsion bars control the A-arm travel by resisting twist, as a rotational spring. You need a new spring that resists linear motion, like a leaf or a coil spring..
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Old 02-09-2005
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He's not -- he wants to use the mounting area to weld on the "radius arm" brackets. The radius arms constrain the geometry of the axle articulation. He's presupposing using coil springs as indicated by his referenced to "coil buckets" (top coil spring mount) from a twin traction beam Ranger.

I would just do leaf springs and make it dead simple. If I were to do it, that's how I'd go. Properly designed, a leaf sprung front can be very compliant -- I'm not going to be doing professional rock crawling with it after all!
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Old 02-09-2005
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35's can be amazingly strong ever heard of a super 35?
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
He's not -- he wants to use the mounting area to..
Uh, derr! You're right, my bad. Ignore me..
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Old 02-09-2005
optikal illushun's Avatar
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ya sorry i wasnt clear on that. u can beef up a 35 to take some abuse, hell look at that kid running 40s on a TTB D35. light weight, realitivly low power and careful driving would be ok. even so, say u use a D44 from an old bronco...same principle...just a thought anyway. u can use the radius arms from the D44 and use the T-bar mounts to attatch the radius arms. im sure u can adapt a steering box from a TTB ranger and steering linkage, no?

i would have went leaf sprung but thats a little harder to do because ya need to weld up the leaf spring pearches and shackle mounts...plus a D35 or D44 is pretty much a done deal, just need to adapt the upper coil buckets and track bad. the steering would be the same for either...this doesnt sound so bad afterall, hrm...
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Old 02-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Therhinosranger
35's can be amazingly strong ever heard of a super 35?


yeah you can buy an expensive beefed up d35 but why? when you can get a d44 out of a bronco, or shorten a d60 and have them handle the abuse stock not to mention the slew of aftermarket knuckles, shafts and lockers for em. doesnt make any sense.
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Old 02-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optikal illushun
hell look at that kid running 40s on a TTB D35. light weight, realitivly low power and careful driving would be ok.



haha NO! that kids setup is not OK. thats rediculous to put 39.5s on a d35 I wanna talk to that kid cause if he hasnt broken 20+ shafts already, he must have the BEST luck in the world not to mention the worlds strongest d35 shafts and strongest ring and pinion gears just by factory mistake.

thats a dumb setup. nice looking but dumb.




Quote:
Originally Posted by optikal illushun
i would have went leaf sprung but thats a little harder to do because ya need to weld up the leaf spring pearches and shackle mounts...plus a D35 or D44 is pretty much a done deal, just need to adapt the upper coil buckets and track bad. the steering would be the same for either...this doesnt sound so bad afterall, hrm...


coil springs are NOT that easy, you have to triangulate the rear end and a bunch of other ****, leaf springs are WAY easier to do because all you NEED to do is the perches on the axle (which is so simple it makes me sick) and weld the hangers (which just takes careful measurement)

and trust me it is so bad. its a lot more work than you think it is and youre gonna need a lot more parts than you think you will.
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Old 02-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
I would just do leaf springs and make it dead simple. If I were to do it, that's how I'd go. Properly designed, a leaf sprung front can be very compliant -- I'm not going to be doing professional rock crawling with it after all!



I wouldnt do coils If I had my choice either john cause if I REALLY wanted to professionally rock crawl Id get coilovers and pass up the whole coil setup. I would do leafsprings FOR SURE!!! theyre so easy to work on and done right the can get nearly the same droop as coils for less hassle and money.
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Old 02-09-2005
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i didnt say that kids truck was safe but hes doing it. personally i think hes a dumbass.

what do u mean triangulate the rear end? i dont see how hard it would be with coils? i dunno.

and this will never become a true project just a thought and nice post padding ;-)
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Old 02-09-2005
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triangulating coils is when you line up the radius arms and the way the coils will droop for maximum articulation. not an easy process. coils aill be very difficult to do if you dont even know much about em and If you took it to a shop youde get raped.


If I were you I would just plan on leafs. and if you want to get really crazy, just make a straight jump to coilovers.
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Old 02-09-2005
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ah ok i understand now. i never heard it like that before. like i said it'll never happen, just a thought.
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Old 02-09-2005
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Yes, not that I've ever done it, but I've been reading about suspension setups, and leaf conversions are just plain easier. The geometry is much simpler and there is much less to go "wrong" that will require correction when you're done. I'm on the same page as Gil.

Coils and coilovers are a "hot ticket" -- but the engineering required (or dumb luck, lol) to get it right are more than it's worth for the average trail truck like I'm going to put together. I think you get 80% of the benefit with leafs for a LOT less than 80% of the cost and work.
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Old 02-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
Coils and coilovers are a "hot ticket" -- but the engineering required (or dumb luck, lol) to get it right are more than it's worth for the average trail truck like I'm going to put together. I think you get 80% of the benefit with leafs for a LOT less than 80% of the cost and work.



well, coilovers are worth it in my opinion. coils arent. coilovers will give you so much travel that youll get frequent flyer miles.




ok lame joke.
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  #17  
Old 03-02-2005
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Actually, you CAN use the factory rack and pinion on a SAS. IT's ghetto fabalous and not near the strength that you would want, but you can do it, i've seen an exploder with a dana 30 and the stock rack and pinion, in person so don't say "o no it's impossible".

All he did is leave the passenger side tie rod hanging loose, connected to nothing. Made a huge 1/2" thick steel bracket that connected to the top of the knuckle on the drivers side. Used a stock jeep tie rod to connect the 2 knuckels and v'iola.
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  #18  
Old 03-02-2005
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I don't see how it (the rack) can be connected on both sides. It has to be just one side of the rack connected to one side of the suspension, and a tie-bar to the other side. The geometry would absolutely not work to use rack and pinion with a straight axle swap otherwise.

The axle has no axis of arriculation aligned with the axis of pivots on the tie rods coming out of the rack. Even WITH just one side connected, you'll have a serious bump steer problem. Regular setups use a track bar whose length and angle parallels that of the steering linkage. This means that as the axle articulates, both the track bar and tie rod move together. How would you make that work properly with a rack.

With a rack setup, the tie rods from the rack have pivot axis that align with the axis of the IFS articulation. Again, to prevent steering changes with suspension movement.

And, when you do it that way, you've lost the advantage of the rack and pinion.

It may be ghetto fabulous, but it is STILL IMPOSSIBLE to make it work RIGHT, and that's what Gil was saying. I wouldn't drive a rig like that over 10 mph or in ANY critical situation.
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Old 03-02-2005
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In my post, i said "he did leave his passenger side tie rod hanging loose", therefore only the drivers side of the rack is connected.

And it works, it is his daily driver and trail rig. I'm not arguing it's worth doing or a good idea, but it is possible, and it works.
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Old 03-02-2005
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I just don't understand why anyone would do that. It makes no sense: it's poor steering geometry and loses all the advantages of rack and pinino and you get nothing in return except not having to fit a steering box.

I believe someone did it: but "possible" to me means "possible to have a proper steering geometry". That's not possible with a rack and SAS so I still say it's not possible -- nor practical.
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Old 03-02-2005
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Ya when i saw it, my jaw dropped, and i just started laughing inside. He was so proud of it too, i wanted to smack him and say WTF are you thinking!
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2005
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rack n pinion has no place on tires outside of 33s IMO...its just a bad design for wheelin and large tires...
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Old 03-02-2005
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Originally Posted by 034x4
Ya when i saw it, my jaw dropped, and i just started laughing inside. He was so proud of it too, i wanted to smack him and say WTF are you thinking!
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