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Old 04-20-2008
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Icon5 Ethanol...

Do you get better fuel economy running on unleaded plus ethanol or just unleaded. I always use ethanol because its cheaper and just want to know if it is worth the cost to use without ethanol.
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Old 04-20-2008
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ethanol makes your fuel millage go down so it its almost an even trade on price/millage depending on how much the price difference is
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Old 04-20-2008
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Are you talking about E85 flex fuel or normal gas using ethanol instead of MTBE?
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Old 04-20-2008
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Originally Posted by FireRanger View Post
Are you talking about E85 flex fuel or normal gas using ethanol instead of MTBE?
I'm talking about unleaded plus ethanol, not E-85. Just regular unleaded and unleaded plus... which is about 10 cents cheaper per gallon.
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Old 04-20-2008
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We don't get that option here. All gas statewide is 10% ethanol.
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Old 04-20-2008
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Originally Posted by Jaaia View Post
I'm talking about unleaded plus ethanol, not E-85. Just regular unleaded and unleaded plus... which is about 10 cents cheaper per gallon.
any idea of the percentage? i know here we have winter gas with a high ethanol percentage and my fuel efficiency suffers. i would do a tank of each and get a rough comparison of efficiency and see if that extra $1.70 is worth it
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Old 04-20-2008
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My next tank i will put in regular unleaded and see how it works. Thanks for the input.
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Old 04-20-2008
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E-85 means its 85% ethanol

i dont like it for a few reasons, its more corrosive, you dont save any money after you factor in the less fuel economy and you have less power.
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Old 04-20-2008
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we have 87 regular unleaded which is 10 cents more then 90 (10% ethanol) with that stuff with the added ethanol i get like 2mpg less with it. I usually pay the 10 cents more per gallon and get the 87....
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Old 04-21-2008
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I think that what we have here. The extra 2 MPG sounds worth it... ill give it a try.
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Old 05-01-2008
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isnt e85 a high octane equvilant?
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Old 05-01-2008
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Originally Posted by DillonT View Post
isnt e85 a high octane equvilant?
Which means it takes more heat to get it to burn.And when it does burn the gases don't expand as much as gasoline , hence less power / mileage .
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Old 05-01-2008
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you actually get more power out of e85 then 87 octane. Ford rates the Flex fuel 3.0 rangers horsepower using e85 and not 87 octane gasoline
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Old 05-01-2008
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Doesn't ethanol gasoline absorb water that condensates in the tank?
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Old 05-01-2008
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I probably shouldnt post but a co-worker who delivers for a large company told me that we- company we work for and all others now mix thier own gas with ethanol as a method of making money for the company. I dont know if he is telling the whole trueth, BUT he said most all companys are selling a mix of gas not true unleaded or leaded any more.... was just a thought on why our milege isnt what it may have been at one time.
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Old 05-01-2008
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Well I notice at the pumps there a little sticker saying 10% ethanol. I've see this at 76 and Am/Pm. Not sure on the others.
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Old 05-01-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimalee2ooo View Post
I probably shouldnt post but a co-worker who delivers for a large company told me that we- company we work for and all others now mix thier own gas with ethanol as a method of making money for the company. I dont know if he is telling the whole trueth, BUT he said most all companys are selling a mix of gas not true unleaded or leaded any more.... was just a thought on why our milege isnt what it may have been at one time.
That's why I dont buy cheap gas.. Shell or Chevron only for me. I actually get better mileage out of Chevron gas, and no it's not in my head i've seen the difference on numerous occasions.
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Old 05-01-2008
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Damn well then I might start using shell again. I didn't think there was much of a difference between the cheap stuff and the regular.
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  #19  
Old 05-02-2008
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Lots of places mix 10% ethanol in... it's BS because ethanol is probably the worst idea ever...
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Old 05-02-2008
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You guys tried E-15? A smart station nearby has a sticker saying that it is not regular gas. But I wont try it I thought maybe you needed a FlexFuel Vehicle
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  #21  
Old 05-06-2008
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Ethanol is not as bad as some people here are making it out to be.

Ethanol is not any more corrosive to the fuel lines of vehicles intended to run ethanol. Stainless steel and brass fittings are used instead of regular steel.

Secondly, a ECU that is set up to run E85 and 87 will be occasionally pushing the timing forward to the point of knocking and then retard it back. Because E85 has much higher equivilant octane than ole' 87 the timing can be advanced substantially without worry. I do not know if the Flex Fuel 3.0 has such a feature.

Ethanol does not nessicarily produce less power. How ethanol burns can not be compared to how gasoline burns. Gasoline is made up of strictly hydrocarbon chains. Ethanol is an entirely different beast in itself. Alcohols burn differently because they have an OH group attached. Because of the higher equivilant octane rating it can be ran in engines with more advanced timing and higher compression. Higher compression and advanced timing both mean more efficent combustion. Although ethanol has less joules (energy) per gallon, it can burn more efficently.

Not only this but when ethanol atomozes and evaporates it takes more energy out out of the air than gasoline. What does this mean? It cools the charge more. As we all know, a cooler, more dense charge means more efficent combustion.

Pure ethanol is Miscible in water. This means there is no proportion at which they will not completely dissolve in oneanother. However, E85 is not pure ethanol. This is the main reason why we run E85 and not E100. It is not to add a little extra energy to the fuel like some uneducated ethanol haters will try and tell you. So no, water vapor will not dissolve in E85, no worries there.

The main problem with ethanol is producability. We cant grow enough grain to keep up with supply. However, we have massive oceans and plenty of kelps and algeas ferment with ethanol yeilds as high or higher than land grains. The problem is applying this on a massive scale to produce an entirely new industry. Who will regulate how much of what ocean gets used for ehtanol production. Currently, international waters are international waters. Free to use but not to own.
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  #22  
Old 05-06-2008
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I'm waiting for switch grass Ethanol... Until then, we have to use corn, and we will continue to **** off the UN (BFD) because we use "Food for Fuel". Well, we planted it, we grew it, we harvested it, who the “F” is the UN to say what we can do with it in our borders???? [/rant]

Anywho... Water is an issue. If you add water to E85, the Ethanol and gas separate causing issues - been there, watched that...
E85 is a good 5% increase in power if you have the capability. I tune, I have the capability. The Focus and Explorer have back up Ethanol tunes. Each have logged 3-4 tanks of back to back E85 with only one issue - a "Errrrt" sound when the fuel pump primes at "key on". Add a tank or gas, or switch to 50/50 (gas/E85) and it goes away, but that was just the Focus.

Start E85 at 2 gallons per tank, add 1 gallon each fill up until you can go straight to E85. This is for cleaning and conditioning. If you have a high mile FFV that has always run on gas, the second you dump a whole tank of E85 in there, it sucks up the moisture, separates the gas and Ethanol and floats every last particle of gum, varnish and gunk straight to the fuel filter and injectors. I've repaired 3 to date, all the same issues, clogged fuel filter and 1-2 "smoked" injectors. Gradually increase the E85 mix and change the fuel filter - no such problem.

E85 vs E100 - Here is the real deal. Ethanol is a "controlled substance", in that it can be consumed for recreational purposes. So, to keep people from "suckling the pump" at the local filling station, the government has you cut the Ethanol with gas to "denature" it, or it is considered “moonshine”. So:
…Add gas, you can’t drink it, no tax stamp needed, you brew at home - it’s all good.
…Don’t add gas, it is pure alcohol; you are operating an illegal still and go to jail. Any questions?

Since Gasoline aids in cold starts, it is mixed in at various ratios with the seasons (E70, E74, E78 in most areas, "E85" is just a name, not a mixture).

E10 is 10% Ethanol and it does not vary. Most local areas (especially near cities) will seasonally switch to E10 in the winter months to reduce emissions. There is an MPG hit with the E10, but not as much as the cold temperatures cause, it is mostly a coincidence.
If you build an engine for E85 (12.5:1 compression and 15lbs boost from a turbo), you will be running 2+x the power of a gas engine. Octanes vary from 100 to 105 based on the season and mix. This will also produce better MPG than Gas due to the reduced need for displacement, increased efficiency and more power.

E100 is kind of a misnomer too, since Ethanol is hygroscopic (absorbs moisture), it can never be "pure" Ethanol. E100 would just mean that it is not cut with fuel, but it would be 192 to 198 proof (96-99% pure) depending on the method used. The last 10-15 proof are the hardest and most expensive part.
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  #23  
Old 05-07-2008
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Good posting.

I'm glad you pointed out the other reason for not running E-100. Whenever I bring that up, especially on forums, uninformed people like to call BS and poke fun for suggesting one could drink a fuel. It is quite simple to make 100% ethanol in your own home if you are willing to brake the law or get an ethanol fuel license. 95% by careful distillation and new 100% by adding a water reactive carbonate.
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  #24  
Old 05-07-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtslmn720 View Post
you actually get more power out of e85 then 87 octane. Ford rates the Flex fuel 3.0 rangers horsepower using e85 and not 87 octane gasoline
With the Flex Fuel 3.0L, the timing curves are advanced when using E-85, since it is higher octane. The bad news, it just needs more of it than gasoline.
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  #25  
Old 05-07-2008
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
With the Flex Fuel 3.0L, the timing curves are advanced when using E-85, since it is higher octane. The bad news, it just needs more of it than gasoline.
How did you come to that conclusion?
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