underdrive pully and high amp alternator - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


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  #1  
Old 10-09-2008
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underdrive pully and high amp alternator

Hello everyone! I am considering buying the complete UD pulley kit from stuffforyourranger.com and came across an interesting query. I want to install a high amp alternator as well. Which pulley should i use on the new alternator? The high amp alternators come with a smaller than stock pulley already, so do i still use the pulley on it or the one from the kit? Any info or ideas are greatly appreciated!
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Old 10-09-2008
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You would prolly wanna run an overdrive pulley on the alt to get it spinning at normal speed. I'm not sure, but I think I would run which ever pulley is smaller.
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Old 10-09-2008
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I would use whatever one is smaller. The goal of the smaller pulley on the new alternator was to produce more amperage at lower rpm. So therefore with the underdrive pulleys you've slowed that down. You want the alternator to spin as fast as it can. With a smaller pulley it will.

In layman's terms, use the smallest one.
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2008
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A high output alternator puts out less at low RPMs than a standard output alternator. Stay with the OEM pulleys to eliminate problems down the road.
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Old 10-09-2008
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Run the one that comes with the kit, this way the belt is the correct size.
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Old 10-09-2008
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Bob, Bob, Bob, now really?

http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.php?p=75 ....see the pretty graph? Refute that with credible data, please.

Ignore the 95A 3G, which hardly quaifies as a "high output" alternator. That would be represented by the GREEN line in the graph, for the impaired. Something tells me John wasn't considering that one.

Come on, let's all get with the program,

"OEM is the best",
"Ford is smarter than the rest",
"Don't you modify your Ranger",
"That'll put your kin in danger"


Johnny Mac, a lot of Fords came stock with high output alternators. Explorers, Super Duty, Ambulances, Lincolns with heated seats, etc. You sure don't see those ambulances sitting on the road with dead batteries and I'm pretty sure they put quite a load on the alternator AT IDLE so much of the time. You will need to upgrade your wiring and grounds to actually use that extra output safely. Otherwise, you may release smoke. Your options are limited only by your budget. Just be smart about it.

4 days, nicotine free. Can you tell I'm grouchy?
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl43P View Post
4 days, nicotine free. Can you tell I'm grouchy?
Good going! Keep it up!
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  #8  
Old 10-09-2008
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Originally Posted by Earl43P View Post
Bob, Bob, Bob, now really?

http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.php?p=75 ....see the pretty graph? Refute that with credible data, please.

Ignore the 95A 3G, which hardly quaifies as a "high output" alternator. That would be represented by the GREEN line in the graph, for the impaired. Something tells me John wasn't considering that one.

Come on, let's all get with the program,

"OEM is the best",
"Ford is smarter than the rest",
"Don't you modify your Ranger",
"That'll put your kin in danger"


Johnny Mac, a lot of Fords came stock with high output alternators. Explorers, Super Duty, Ambulances, Lincolns with heated seats, etc. You sure don't see those ambulances sitting on the road with dead batteries and I'm pretty sure they put quite a load on the alternator AT IDLE so much of the time. You will need to upgrade your wiring and grounds to actually use that extra output safely. Otherwise, you may release smoke. Your options are limited only by your budget. Just be smart about it.

4 days, nicotine free. Can you tell I'm grouchy?

Earl, I'm still looking for a graph I've seen online that shows the minimum RPM for a high current alternator is higher than for a lower current alternator, and I'll post it when I find it. If your graph started lower than 1K RPMs, you would see the same effect with the higher current alternators. The 75AMP and 96AMP alternators show the effect at 1K RPMS
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  #9  
Old 10-09-2008
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I'll save you the frustration. see post #2: http://broncozone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12388

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...paperformance/

http://www.geocities.com/smithmonte/...or_Upgrade.htm says:

If you do not get enough ouput voltage at idle, replace the standard 60mm pulley with a 1 3/4" (44mm) overdrive pulley from Auto Specialties. It's easy to monitor voltage on the go, make a cable that connects your DVM to the cigarette lighter and watch it under all conditions. The voltage will drop off when the engine/alternator get warm; this is normal. When the load increases, i.e. electric fan comes on or you turn the AC/heater blower on, the voltage will normally drop. It would be nice to keep the voltage at idle above 12.6V, which is the voltage of a charged battery, otherwise you will be drawing currrent from the batter (discharging it) instead of from the alternator.

which should help the OP decide about wiring.

http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/3ag/3ag.htm compares the benefits of upgrading from 2G to 3G, which owes its very existance to low output at idle.

http://www.atomicperformance.com/bro...-Mustangs.HTML claims 100 Amps at idle. But we've already established the benefit of 3G over 2G.

http://www.ourdjtalk.com/~thewebw/fo...ead.php?t=1918 just for good measure.

Last edited by Earl43P; 10-09-2008 at 10:18 AM.
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2008
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Not to jack the thread!! I already bought a high out put alt. from DB Electrical. They said at idle in 105amps and 1200rpm's up is 200+ amps. I know I have to change charging wire. But what else would be good to go ahead and upgrade???
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  #11  
Old 10-09-2008
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Um why not just get the alternator pulley?
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2008
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Yeah. The new pulley will raise the alternator back up to the correct speed.

If you want info about mods ask the people that try them. Bob has no experience with any mods.
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fddriver02 View Post
Yeah. The new pulley will raise the alternator back up to the correct speed.

If you want info about mods ask the people that try them. Bob has no experience with any mods.
The people that "try" them usually don't have the technical background
to recognize they are waste, before throwing their money away!

These same people suggest dangerous stuff like pulling a battery terminal
off the battery with an engine running, which can create voltage spikes
to destroy alternators, voltage regulators, PCMs, etc., again, due to no
technical background!
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
The people that "try" them usually don't have the technical background
to recognize they are waste, before throwing their money away!

These same people suggest dangerous stuff like pulling a battery terminal
off the battery with an engine running, which can create voltage spikes
to destroy alternators, voltage regulators, PCMs, etc., again, due to no
technical background!
Ok so you are a little boy now. You hold onto stupid things like me saying pull the battery cables off. I didn't know doing that would cause damage. I already said in that thread that I didn't know.

In the end you lose though just like in every thread you try to argue. There is a pulley available to speed the alternator back up to it's original speed. And I'm sure people have run the UP pulley without the alternator pulley and have been just fine. So again you lose. Don't give advice on aftermarket products when you haven't tried them yourself.
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  #15  
Old 10-09-2008
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I've posted this before, but even though your truck is out of warranty, you should be aware of the problems UDPs can cause, in addition to the electrical system problems:

By Joe Bradley, Manager of Ford's Warranty Analysis department

"As you might expect from the company that formed SVT, the Ford Motor Company has many employees who are true performance enthusiasts -- folks who love and care for their personal high-performance vehicles as much as or more than the next guy or gal. Many of us, in fact, are true "weekend warriors" who can be found at the local drag strip or road course on Saturdays and Sundays, and tinkering under the hood during weekday evenings getting ready for the next event. As automotive enthusiasts, we certainly can appreciate performance machinery.

That said, as Ford employees we all want to do the right thing for our customers as well as for the Ford Motor Company. That is precisely why it is important to have a concise, easy-to-understand policy with regard to Ford warranty administration. For vehicles that are not modified, the Ford warranty policy is clear – the company backs its products within the guidelines of the new vehicle limited warranty, which is designed to protect the customer from defects in factory workmanship and/or material.

However, in the case of vehicles that have been modified, one needs to understand that the modifications may affect warranty coverage. This is simply because any damage or failure of new vehicle components or systems that was caused by modifications to the vehicle are not defects in "factory supplied" workmanship or material.

To illustrate this point, let's consider a small sample of vehicle modifications and see how they might affect factory components or systems: When it comes to changing the factory engine drive pulleys, there are some powertrain system and component concerns that deserve consideration. One would be any electrical and/or charging system problems that arise because of reduced alternator operating speed caused by the installation of underdrive pulleys. After all, the performance and serviceability of many system components are based on certain design parameters that include operating speed. The same goes for problems stemming from higher cooling system temperatures because of reduced water pump flow caused by the installation of underdrive pulleys. Increased underhood temperatures caused by owner-induced changes to a factory design-specification part can have a detrimental effect on any number of powertrain components or systems – some that may have long-range implications. And things can get even more serious when supercharger pulley changes are made, including head gasket leaks and piston and connecting rod failures. Also possible is piston damage due to detonation from improper air/fuel and timing modifications.

The installation of any non-factory forced induction system can also cause problems. Base engines modified with aftermarket superchargers, turbochargers or nitrous oxide injection systems may indeed bring about some power gains, but they can cause piston, connecting rod and/or crankshaft failures as well.

Other parts of a vehicle's factory-spec drivetrain are also susceptible to damage when engine torque and horsepower is increased. Performance chips or other power-enhancing devices increase torque loads on the driveline and can force failure of the transmission and/or rear axle. The latter problem can be especially true when owners switch to wider tires or racing slicks in an effort to increase traction. Even non "go-fast" aftermarket accessories such as remote starters, alarms, supplementary gauges and audio equipment can cause electrical system service problems if they are installed incorrectly or have improper connections.

When it comes to fairly evaluating the possibility of a warranty denial, there's one simple rule of thumb to follow: Although the installation of non-Ford parts and aftermarket modifications, by themselves, will not void the Ford New Vehicle Limited Warranty, failures that result from these parts and/or modifications may result in a denial of warranty coverage for such failures or damage.

The bottom line is, Ford Motor Company wants each of its owners to enjoy their product to the fullest extent – and that includes performance vehicles. But dealer service technicians have seen, and continue to see, that modifications may cause the original design to fail. The addition of aftermarket parts is a risk that each and every vehicle owner must evaluate for themselves. All that's needed is a reasonable dose of common sense. When and if you modify your vehicle, please consider whether the modification may cause another component to fail – and if it does, recognize that warranty coverage for that failure or damage will likely be denied. "



And, also posted before, are some links with problems people have experienced with UDPs:

http://www.camaroforums.com/archive/...s-22277-1.html


http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...-problems.html


http://audi.cats.lv/page/modules.php...howpage&pid=10
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  #16  
Old 10-09-2008
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Don't care about your links or your copy and pasting. In the end warranty work can only be denied if the aftermarket product was the cause of the failure. I have never been denied warranty work.

Again, why you joined a truck modding forum to preach your "OEM is the best" crap is beyond me or anyone else on this site.

Last edited by whippersnapper02; 10-09-2008 at 06:49 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10-09-2008
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I have underdrive pulleys on my 1990, 302 ranger. Do you think they have voided my warranty? I'm concerned after reading this thread.
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  #18  
Old 10-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My91Ranger View Post
I have underdrive pulleys on my 1990, 302 ranger. Do you think they have voided my warranty? I'm concerned after reading this thread.
Well you voided your warranty by not using Ford brand air, gas, water, air freshener and brake fluid in your Ford. Uh oh!!!!
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  #19  
Old 10-09-2008
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From a chart a saw some time go about the upgraded 200A alt for the ranger, at idle, it made less output than the stock did, but at basically any revving (i think 1000 or 1200+ RPMs) the high output put out more current than the stocker did. The increase was more linear on the stocker, as it was designed. The high output had a more exponential growth in the beginning.
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  #20  
Old 10-09-2008
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this chart reminds me of having to read bobs reply's
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  #21  
Old 10-09-2008
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I have a 1200 watt soundsystem and a pair of piaa driving lights. Do i even need i better alt. for these? If so, what is a good brand for those of you who have one?

P.S. im aware that i would need a larger cable for a high amp alt.
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  #22  
Old 10-09-2008
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You can get yours rewound for a higher amperage, I think, or look at these.
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  #23  
Old 10-09-2008
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Check out this one it's where I got mine from.

http://www.db-starter-alternator.com...aSKU=7750-200%

Last edited by DeepSouthRanger; 10-09-2008 at 11:10 PM. Reason: link didn't work
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  #24  
Old 11-11-2008
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I've been traveling and had the chance to stop by a few times and see the people at D&B personally. Great folks and very helpful. Robbie helped guide me on the set up on my trailer charging system. It has not blown up or caught fire yet.
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