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4.0L OHV & SOHC V6 Tech General discussion of 4.0L OHV and SOHC V6 Ford Ranger engines.

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  #176  
Old 03-11-2009
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Come on stalker.. if you have truth on your side you should have no problem showing the world why the PCM w/adaptive learning can correct A/F. (no matter wether the IAT of MAF has a modified signal)

Come on.. what are you wating for?
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  #177  
Old 03-11-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Come on stalker.. if you have truth on your side you should have no problem showing the world why the PCM w/adaptive learning can correct A/F. (no matter wether the IAT of MAF has a modified signal)

Come on.. what are you wating for?

Rich, the answer is YES!! Did you even read my post from fordfuelinjection.com?

You should check it out, you will pick up a lot of BUZZ WORDS there!!
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  #178  
Old 03-20-2009
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Here are the stock "shift points" on my 06 FX4. (response to another thread that I think is best suited for this one)


Within the tune, shift points are based on several things. This data shows only part of it. Take notice of the 66mph-7266rpm shift for full throttle.
Well.. we all know that's not a real goal of ford. What they have done here is to nullify this particular data point by making it higher than the "rpm based shift" chart. This kind of cross referencing, scaling, math calcs, and limiters are in part why tuning has been percieved as a "black art". Truth is.. it's not. There are just so many *other* things you have to change to get it to act the way you want. It simply takes time. LOTS of time. But once you have done the foot work.. it's a completely different truck to drive. And IMO well worth the cost.


btw.. both bama and henson were never able to make my x-cal 2 able to change shift speeds at WOT. And thess "other things" are the reason! They simply never took the time (or had a lack of knowledge) to change my rpm based chart -vs- this chart pictured so that I could make the x-cal 2 do what it was intended to do. This is a prime example why the tuner behind the x-cal is where the real value is.
Your not spending money on a "x-cal". Your spending money on the person writing the tune.

I've changed these settings in my tunes and now the truck responds exactly as I program it with the x-cal2.



Now.. the TQ convertor lockups are a completely seperate chart. Often times with the stock tune it's hard to tell when it's a shift or a TQ convertor lock up. Thats a seperate issue that I can post about if someone is interested.


This first pic shows the stock 1-2 shift.
Throttle position is shown the on the X-axis and vehicle speed is shown on the y-axis.
The bright red line is the upshift speed vs TP. The dark red line is the down shift speed vs TP.
Below each graph is the math driving it. Often times the high numbers and low numbers are over ruled by other charts and limiters within the tune.
Getting these charts and those other settings to match my personal tastes is where I've spent 80% of my tuning time.

NOTE: You'll notice that it's very high under about 28% throttle. This is the "skip shift" feature from ford. See the third pic down for further info.









This is the 2-3 shift. Bright blue is upshift vs speed. And dark blue is down shift vs speed.











Here is the "skip shift" feature from ford. The red line is 1-2 upshifts. And the blue is 2-3 upshifts.
Basicly.. at less than 28% throttle it won't shift into 2nd gear because the tune is saying that the next available gear is 3rd.

In my tunes I've kept this on all except the towing tune. And man has it seemed to make a difference in just driving around town. Here in about 2 months I'll get the boat out and do some real road testing and tweaking.


Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 03-20-2009 at 05:19 PM.
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  #179  
Old 04-05-2009
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Interested

in tuning my '00 OHV 4.0 4X2 with 5 spd. auto. I am new to this entire subject, but not new to cars or trucks at all. While I do understand some of the operating parameters that can be adjusted, I'd like more information before I take the plunge.
Can you recommend a good site that can explain what I am getting myself into?
I primarily do stop and go, short distance runs, never tow with it, and occasionally do haul moderate loads.
The light throttle upshift from 1st. to 3rd. irks me, I'd at least like to delay it somewhat and firm it up.
Fuel economy is dismal, I average between 13-15 mpg, any improvement here would be welcome

Thanks!
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  #180  
Old 04-08-2009
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Can you recommend a good site that can explain what I am getting myself into?
Sorry about the delay in responding. Haven't been online much..

IMO SCT products are like microsoft was in the early days. Unorganized and a bit confusing to the moderately skilled user.

So the answer to your question is.. not really when it comes to rangers.
Once you buy the pro racer package you have access to a pro racer forum. But in there you get next to no respect unless it's a twin turbo cobra.

IN this tuning of my ranger.. it's been 95% my own trial and error. And since I'm a generally conservative kind of guy.. I take baby steps until I get a little past where I want to be then back off a little.




Quote:
Originally Posted by jkl2455 View Post
I primarily do stop and go, short distance runs, never tow with it, and occasionally do haul moderate loads.
The light throttle upshift from 1st. to 3rd. irks me, I'd at least like to delay it somewhat and firm it up.
This is very easily to fix. I did something a little different though. I slightly lowered the 1-3 shift and TQ convertor lockup so that I could drive in a 25mph zone with the cruise control set. (in my commute I go around a 1.5 mile lake that's 25mph)
I then lowered the speed at which it shifts into 2nd. (based on speed vs throttle position). It took several months of trial and error. But I must say it's nice now. I can either bump along at 1100 rpms at very light throttle and at heavier throttle it'll keep the rpms up more than the stock tune.
I did the same tuning for 4th gear and 5th gear. (35, 40, & 45mph zones)

This level of detail.. the "tuners" who would sell you a x-cal will never address. It takes time in the seat to get it right. I must have spent a good 160hrs so far developing this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jkl2455 View Post
Fuel economy is dismal, I average between 13-15 mpg, any improvement here would be welcome
I have a loaded FX4 (4x4 w/4.0L & auto) In the winter I avg approx 17 and in the summer it's in the 20-22 area. And my driving is pretty much 50/50 too. 50 freeway at 70mph and 50% stop and go driving in 1 mile intervals. (metro detroit)

If you buy an x-cal from a "tuner" and ask for these types of changes.. they will only be guessing. Chances are they will simply take the stock tranny numbers and add / subtract or just scale them. Well.. thats not really addressing what you are asking for.

If you buy a sct pro racer package.. e-mail me. I'll gladly share my tune with you and why I've done what and where.

Rich
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  #181  
Old 07-05-2009
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hi there i have a couple of question sorry if they have been answered alredy in this thread but im curious what the stock shift points are at wot i have an x-cal 2 and dont like the way it shift. at normal throttle when taking off from a stop it shifts at like 30 mph and the motor is at pretty high rpms (i dont like this) i some times have to let off the throttle completely before it shifts. and the tune is set up for mpg.
and i dont think so but are you selling tunes?
thanks
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  #182  
Old 07-07-2009
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On my 06 FX4 they were right in the 5400-5500 area.

There is something that I found out about this.. what a bloody headache too!

You see, there are settings for both rpms and for vehicle speed.

*if* the tuner sets you up based on rpms then you won't be able to change the speeds with your x-cal.

*if* they set it up based on speed then you will *if* the rpm settings don't over ride it.

What I did was change the rpm limits to 5900 rpms. I then command the 1-2 shift for a "speed" that results at 5700 rpms. All other shifts were adjusted so that they happen at vehicle speeds that result in 5500rpm. (all through trial and error)

Its all a system of limits when it comes to tuning. Very much like a pin ball machine. Very seldom can you command it to do something and it actually happen just as you commanded. Instead the command gets limited by 20 different obsticals on it's way to getting where it's going. I must say though.. once you get it ironed out, it's awsome. My good friend Jim can't believe a 4x4 ranger will do what it does. LOL.. from a dead stop I can stomp the throttle and spin them all the way through first and into 2nd (in the winter when the air is cold). And it'll give a nice positive thump forward on all shifts. Every once in a while it'll chirp my 32s on the 1-2 shift.

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 07-07-2009 at 12:17 PM.
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  #183  
Old 07-07-2009
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I have a question.

I purchased the SCT X-cal 3 from Doug at Bama. No complaints on the initial transaction. I sent them an e-mail asking them a question, and want to hear your take on it.

I got a torque tune and a performance tune for 93 octane. Both tunes perform as advertised. The torque tune pulls strong in the 1500-3000 range but drops off above that. The performance tune starts pulling noticably around 3500 and hauls all the way up to 6200 (where I set the redline). As I understand it, the tuning is done in RPM "blocks", and so the question is, what would be the problem of melding the two tunes together? Running the "torque" settings below 3000 and the "performance" settings above that? Would there be problems with the PCM adjusting the settings?

BamaChips answer was that the PCM couldn't handle the "transition" between the fuel and advance curves.

Curious to hear your knowledge on this?
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  #184  
Old 07-07-2009
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ok now that you say that i rember a setting for rpm shifts but i cant find it on my tuner wtf its like it got deleted, the only setting i have for shift is wot and i can only adjust it to -3 mph !?!?! errrr
see the thing is when you change it on the x-cal it saves it so you dont know what you had before so theres no way to go back if you dont remember.
i wish i had a set up like you have (writing my own tune)
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  #185  
Old 07-08-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnbaum13 View Post
I got a torque tune and a performance tune for 93 octane. Both tunes perform as advertised. The torque tune pulls strong in the 1500-3000 range but drops off above that. The performance tune starts pulling noticably around 3500 and hauls all the way up to 6200 (where I set the redline). As I understand it, the tuning is done in RPM "blocks", and so the question is, what would be the problem of melding the two tunes together? Running the "torque" settings below 3000 and the "performance" settings above that? Would there be problems with the PCM adjusting the settings?

BamaChips answer was that the PCM couldn't handle the "transition" between the fuel and advance curves.

Curious to hear your knowledge on this?
Melding the two together is not only possible.. the premiss of them being "seperate" is completly B-O-G-U-S!



I need to set something straight in all this "tuning" business.

The SCT software is similar to what Ford creates them with. (verified by a close friend who's done this for Ford)

All settings are based on data points that drive a curve on a graph. Whether it be timing, fuel, shifts, convertor locks, ect... Those data points are a "X & Y" value drivin by things like vehicle speed, load, temp, throttle position, ect. You can change the points that drive those curves to what ever numerical value you want. There are a limited number of points.. but there are enough to make nice custom curves for anything you want to achieve.

As far as "transitions" go. **IMO** thats an excuss for not spending the time to write a new and custom tune. I've heard this excuss before. It's bogus.

Now.. if you were my customer I'd do it for you... but I'd tell you up front it's going to take time that you'd be charged for. I just don't know if Doug is blowing you off cause he has easier fish to fry elsewhere... or if it's more of a business decision to not get into *real* custom tuning. The cost could get big in a hurry if he charges by the hour. At some point people are not going to see value in it.
Use me for an example: I have approx 160hrs into learning and tuning my ranger. At say $65hour I'd have spent $10k to gain what? I came to slowly realize this over the years and just decided to buy the software for myself. Cost me $350 + my time of learning & trial / error. Was it worth it.. YOU BET!

In summary here is what I've discovered. The two areas that make for dedicated "tunes" are timing / fuel & tranny settings. The balance of timing, fuel are limited by octane. That dictates what tune is needed for the fuel you feed the motor.
The other is tranny shifts and convertor lockups. All my street and race tunes are nearly identical except for the towing tune. In the towing tune I raise the shift points to get the motor up into the meat of the TQ curve. I also tuned the stupid skip shift out so that it never happens when towing. That makes for very nice power in the 20-30mph area.



I *suspect* that Doug has treated your TQ tune as more of a towing tune for 87 octane. I'd *guess* that he has increased timing down low and is *maybe* locking the convertor up sooner after the shift. In rpms that are above 3000 he's probably running close to stock settings. This would most likely give you the feeling of increased power down low and not much when at higher rpms.

The 93 octane tune most likely is identical down low but doesn't fall flat at elavated rpms.

btw.. timing at hwy speeds makes a significant improvement in MPG at those speeds. How many of you guys would dare to run 45-50BTDC at 70mph on 87 octane? I do.

Rich
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  #186  
Old 07-08-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyway0018746 View Post
ok now that you say that i rember a setting for rpm shifts but i cant find it on my tuner wtf its like it got deleted, the only setting i have for shift is wot and i can only adjust it to -3 mph !?!?! errrr
see the thing is when you change it on the x-cal it saves it so you dont know what you had before so theres no way to go back if you dont remember.
i wish i had a set up like you have (writing my own tune)
If you have the x-cal already.. it's an additional $350
You wirte the tune then flash the x-cal with it/them. And when you flash the x-cal it gives you the opportunity to turn everything on and set limits. (like the 3mph one you mention)

Rich
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  #187  
Old 07-08-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
If you have the x-cal already.. it's an additional $350
You wirte the tune then flash the x-cal with it/them. And when you flash the x-cal it gives you the opportunity to turn everything on and set limits. (like the 3mph one you mention)

Rich
well i just got an e-mail back from the person i bought it from and i asked if he would send me the tune he used so i could adjust it to suite my driving and he said thet i would need to have a data loging session and new tunes.
when i ordered mt x-cal it came with a cd and on it was extreme tune (dont know how good itis ) but if i get the file can i adjust it and load it to my x -cal
the other programs that are on it are live link , live load, and live update.
which i think is everting i need to load my x-cal ?
thanks - jeramey
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  #188  
Old 07-08-2009
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I'm not familiar with extreme tune. I bought the pro racer package.

If this is a tuner sending you these files.. he is the one that will have to make changes. That's why he's asking about data logging. It'll give him the info he needs to make changes from where you are now.

The tunes can be loaded onto your x-cal with the live load.

Hope that answers your Qs? Without the pro racer I don't think there is a way you can modify the tunes yourself?

Rich
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  #189  
Old 07-08-2009
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Hey Rich, did you ever get your truck sold? I sure wish I could have bought it. If my 2008 wasnt upside down, i would have considered it!

Thanks for still hangin out on the forums here, i love reading your stuff!
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  #190  
Old 07-08-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
I *suspect* that Doug has treated your TQ tune as more of a towing tune for 87 octane. I'd *guess* that he has increased timing down low and is *maybe* locking the convertor up sooner after the shift. In rpms that are above 3000 he's probably running close to stock settings. This would most likely give you the feeling of increased power down low and not much when at higher rpms.

The 93 octane tune most likely is identical down low but doesn't fall flat at elavated rpms.

btw.. timing at hwy speeds makes a significant improvement in MPG at those speeds. How many of you guys would dare to run 45-50BTDC at 70mph on 87 octane? I do.

Rich
Both the torque and performance tunes are supposedly optimized for 93 octane.

So other than a little blending, you're saying you could almost just lay the two tunes on top of each other and make a custom tune?

That is what I thought, thanks for the info!

One other q though, is it possible to see what the settings are in the tune without getting them from Doug?
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  #191  
Old 07-09-2009
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Hey Rich, Is the training dvd that comes with the pro racer package helpful at all, or is it lame? I am trying to decide whether to buy the whole package or the tuner and software separately.
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  #192  
Old 07-09-2009
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I understand what your mean by overlaying the tunes. If you took the values above 3000rpms and the values below it.. and put them into one tune you'd have a tune that does both. The data points for 4000rpms are simply a X & Y math value. And the points at 2000rpms are a X & Y math value.

If they are both for 93 octane.. there is *no reason* why they can't both be the same tune.

I've wound up with 4 tunes. 87octane daily, 92octane daily, 75hp dry shot nitrous, & a 92octane towing.
I run the 92 octane daily almost all the time.


You can't see his settings. All you can do is data log what the PCM is putting out. Between that and spending time in the tuning forums.. you can figure out how to tune yourself.

I hate to say it.. but "tuning" is not some majical black art thats worth very expensive "dyno time" for the average street car. Really powerful cars that can't be datalogged on the street... yes. But not the typical mustang, camaro, ranger, ect...

This is a realm where many people stay tight lipped because it's easy money. So they tell you things that sound complicated. You and I are too ignorant to know the difference so we plunk down our hundredes of dollars for a "tune" and maybe even some dyno time.

Yes it's true that it takes time to learn this skill. And from a business stand point you need to recoup that expense for each new vehicle. But.. IMO you don't have to be dis-honest about it.

Out of all the tunes I've bought for different cars in the last 15years.. none of them... NONE OF THEM... can come close to what I've developed for my ranger. The low end power, high end power, crisp shifts, MPG gains have all been fun to learn about and modify. It's shamefull that these places charge $400 for a programmer of some sort and give you three tunes. Well the programmers are nice. But they don't spend hardly any time developing the tunes. They down load the tune from the manufacturer and then do braud general changes. Like.. they'll highlight a whole box in the shift pressure and scale it up by 15%. That's not tuning.. thats something any idiot can do. Tuning is spending time with each point and tweaking it.
My tranny tune from Bama and Henson were untouched! Henson was willing to turn the pressures up but he did it globally and never addressed shift speeds, TQ convertor lockup, & having it soft down low, and thumping at heavy throttle.
With what I've developed my truck acts just like stock at very light throttle. And the harder you push the throttle the more lively it gets. At WOT it'll sometimes bark the tires on the 1-2 shift.

Instead of telling the customer.. I can do it but it's going to require time. They just throw out lies and mis-conceptions that make people go away uneducated and none the wiser.

Sorry for the rant.. I value truth and knowledge.

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 07-09-2009 at 09:02 AM.
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  #193  
Old 07-09-2009
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I bought the DVD from Lasota. If you've never touched SCT pro racer.. yes it's worth the cost.

Also, once you get your license and the code..make sure to send a PM to SCT and permission to join the pro racer forums. They are not great.. but you'll learn and it's free.

Rich
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  #194  
Old 07-09-2009
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god , the more i read bout your tuning and what you can do, the more i want to get the pro race.
ok so i have the sct x-cal 2 if i buy the tuning software will it work with it or do i have to un lock it and is the switch chip necessary
edit: oh what is the diffrent settings for diffrent octane is it just timing ?
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  #195  
Old 07-10-2009
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I bought my x-cal 2 from bama. When I got the software and wrote the tunes.. I had no problem at all. I know the x-cal can be "locked".. appearantly mine isn't as far as using it on the same vehicle and flashing different tunes into it. (different file formats from what bama sends you and what you write)

Octane.. only thing I've changed in those tunes are timing. Nothing else is different. (power and MPG are both noticably better)

The x-cal holds four tunes. No need for a chip unless you want one for a quick change. I have one on my lightning and it's handy to not have to reflash the PCM. But.. that's an added cost too.

Rich
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  #196  
Old 07-12-2009
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so for higher octane increase timing lower octane decrease timing ?
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  #197  
Old 07-13-2009
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If you want to push the timing up near the limits of knock. Yes... you need different timing for different octanes.

The benfit is increased power and MPG. Both are very noticable. Part throttle power is the most noticable IMO.

Rich
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  #198  
Old 07-13-2009
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all right well the tune i have is for 87 but all we have around here is 89 so should i increase global spark or just fool around with the diffrent rpm ranges
all i want is mpg im at like 17 mpg now
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  #199  
Old 07-15-2009
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Bump timing to the max in all areas below 4000rpms. Above 4000rpms is where the knock sensor *stops* working.

Rich
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  #200  
Old 07-17-2009
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Do the higher octane tunes milage gain generally equal out the added cost of gasoline?

Is the aggressiveness of the cruise control changeable with a tuner?

What is "Global Spark"?

How do you pick what tunes you want with Lasota Racing, the vehicle information you have to fill out only makes sense for one tune?
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