so back in August I spun a rod bearing just finished doing a full rebuild. its a 2003 3.0 ohv with .020 overbore and new air/fuel filters, camshaft, lifters, pushrods, valves, pistons, and oil pump. the crankshaft is .010 under and the timing chain as well as cam sync has about 5k. parts came from engine tech master rebuild kit but didnt like the cheapo gaskets so got the 9902pt5 head gasket set from felpro. just got it all completed and sounds like garbage. filled with 5w-30 castrol oil and lucas oil break in additive..

the video is from the second start up.. the first was noisy from start idled for about 10 seconds then held it at about 1500 for maybe 30 seconds and the noise got a little louder and i dropped to an idle and the oil gage bounced and i shut it down right away.

sounds like top end to me from location the sound comes from and the rate but need some second, third fourth oppinions

 

If you put new lifters in or even used the old ones, it can take a few driving cycles to fill with oil. They will be noisy at first.
You can prime new lifters, but it's a bit of a pain.
Did you prime the engine before first start ? In this case you would use an extension and socket to turn the oil pump where the synchronizer is located.

 

Can't hear anything odd in video

remove fan belt so fan and accessories are not turning, or remove fan clutch so water pump is still working, and you can run the engine longer if needed

 

i let the engine crank over for a minute with the coil disconnected.. figured that would get some oil in the system.. i was running a drill on the shaft to the pump earlier and i could head it gargling around down there.. so if i do it for a while it should get all the way to the lifters to fill them? not positive but i think running the drill in reverse is the right way to pump the oil into the block..z

what about why the oil pressure dropped at idle? was ok at 1500rpm but not at idle @ 1000rpm.. the new pump is an engine tech economy oil pump.. seemed ok and like a better choice than the stock one with 175k..

the video isnt that good with the audio.. but the sound is terrible.. sounds like every pushrod is banging back and forth..

 

With out checking, the pump turns clock-wise, the drill should not be in reverse.
Remove the valve cover on the drivers side and prime it again until you see oil reaching the top.
Although at this point, the oil has probably reached the top, but it wouldn't hurt to prime it again and watch to make sure the oil is getting to the top with the valve cover removed.
I went with a "Melling" pump, can't say about Engine Tech pumps, but should be OK one would think.
When turning the oil pump with the drill, turn the key on, you should see the oil gauge jump to the centre.
Turning the drill in reverse may have simply sucked air into the system and drained the lifters _ don't know if that's possible, but something that I thought I should mention.


Pretty easy to test which way the oil pump is turning. Remove the sensor on top of the synchronizer, turn the engine over a touch with the starter and note which direction the "tooth" is turning, but pretty sure it's clock wise.
Only once have I ever seen a distributor turn counter-clock wise, Jaguar did that. Quirky British engineering...


You don't have a distributor any more, but at one time there was one in there (1992 ???). Never seen any Ford engine with the rotor turning counter-clock wise.


That would explain the gurgling noise you were hearing with the oil pump going in the wrong direction.

 

Oil pressure is back pressure(oil that the engine can't use) so anything above 5psi is good pressure, and below 50psi

The Back pressure is from oil passage size and bearing gaps, oil pump should pump more oil than can "fit"/flow out of these gaps, so back pressure builds up and thats what oil pressure gauge is reading, "how much oil can't be used at this RPM"
A drop to 0 could be an opening or too wide a gap in the oil system, or could be lack of good flow from oil pump.

Pressure should drop at low RPM, rule of thumb is 10psi oil pressure per 1,000RPM
So at idle, 650rpm, you would expect 6.5psi, although as long as it is above 5psi all is well
At 2,000rpm expect 20psi
Ect.....

High oil pressure causes bearing washout, so as bad as low pressure.

3.0l Vulcan engine is a non-interference engine so even if crank/cam timing was off the valves can't hit pistons, so no noise there.

 

so i ran it with the drill again and i looked at the way the cam gears turn the synch and it would be spinning clockwise and i could feel much more resistance in the drill compared to counterclockwise.. and put a stethascope in the oil fill and could hear the oil draining back to the pan. i ran the drill for 3-4 minutes till the battery died. just got it back together and going to try starting it again..

 

ok so it did get much quieter but still loosing oil pressure at idle.

would the way the rockers were installed make noise or drop pressure at idle? im use to my vw solid lifters and rockers that just bolt up and then set lash..so i just bolted the rockers on to 24lbs. now i read that you're supposed to put the cylinder at TDC and then something about preload the lifter? then bolt on the rocker. hydraulic lifters are new to me so i dont know what im missing here

and i have the valve cover off to remove/inspect and reinstasll the rockers and pushrods and noticed a few scuffs on some pushrods and all the valve stem seals are lifted off the valve guides.. wtf

 

This engine doesn't require back-lash adjustment for its hydraulic lifters, I was wondering the same thing when I tore my engine apart.
Just torque them down to what it says in the manual, don't worry about all that top dead centre stuff.

What type of valve seals were installed ? Some were umbrella type seals where they didn't actually seal on the guide _ they moved up and down with the stem.
I'm not sure if that type is supposed to be on this engine though _ ask the machine shop.
Worst case is that the machine shop didn't install them properly.

Did you plasti-gage the mains and rods before you put the engine back together ?
Mains should be at no more then 3 thou max and rods at 1 to 1.5 thou...
Plasti-gage isn't all that accurate, but it dos give a person a ball park figure to deal with.
And what about the side clearance of the rods to the crank, did you get that sorted out ? There was one that was a bit out of spec if I remember correctly.

Before you did the engine, was there pressure at the gauge at idle ?
Just trying to figure out what's going on.

Maybe hook a mechanical gauge to see what it actually is _ bit of a bear to get to though, I think the pressure feed is at the back of the engine.

Maybe Ron has some suggestions ???

And the rockers won't have an effect on oil pressure.

EDIT:
Could be the oil pump too, it may drop to 1 or 2 pounds at idle _ which is still OK for idle.
I think the gauge registers (jumps to the middle) at around 5 pounds.

 

Ford changed the valve stem size in 1999 on the 3.0l's, smaller

Can't say why the seals would lift off unless you put 1998 or older heads on it 8mm valve stems, and used 1999 and up seals for 7mm stems.


Hydraulic lifers are pretty simple and quiet which is why they are used now.
There is no rocker adjustment.
Simply torque down the bolts to 20ft/lbs and you are done.

To check "pre-load" you need a straight edge and scribe.
Have valve closed all the way, lay straight edge on valve cover gasket surface so it is touching push rod of valve you want to test.
Scribe a line on the push rod
Now unscrew the rocker or rocker assemble bolt(s)
Lifter should push up the pushrod a bit once pressure is removed
Scribe new line
Distance between the two lines is the pre-load, .020-.060 is pre-load range, over that and too much, under that and not enough

My test for pre-load is simpler, lol.
Rotate engine so valve is closed
Try to rotate pushrod with your fingers, dry off any oil first, you should be able to rotate it but should be very hard to do, if you can't, the "get your husband to try it, sissy boy", lol, it shouldn't rotate easily, if it does then you have a collapsed(Broken spring) lifter or the wrong length pushrod or wrong lifters.
If you can't rotate pushrod except with pliers then wrong pushrods or lifters


Hydraulic lifters have a piston, spring and valve inside, when setup correctly(pre-loaded), the piston will be pushed down about 1/4 of the way against spring pressure, when valve is fully closed, there is fudge room in there, it isn't suppose to be exact the valve takes care of that once engine is started.
When cam lobe pushes up on the lifter the oil inside it must squeeze thru a small hole in the top under pushrod, so lifter compresses but slowly and not fully, when lifter goes back down, piston goes up and SUCKS oil in from a valve that pulls oil in from the oil passages surrounding the lifters.
So the oil itself inside the lifter, not oil pressure, is what stops the "ticking noises" associated with valve train noise.

Usually pushrods have a hollow center so oil from the lifter's hole is pushed up the center of the pushrod and will squirt out a hole in the rocker right above the pushrod, this keeps to end oiled, but some used solid pushrods and rockers and oil via passages.

It is common practice to soak lifters in a tray of oil before installing them, so they have oil inside for start up

 

the valve seals are felpro premium seals. little blue caps similar shape to an upsidedown shotglass with hole in the bottom and has 2 metal rings around it. is there a trick to installing them? i just used the little sleeve over the valve and pushed down with a socket over the guide. should the bottom of the seal touch the base of the head? the seal bottomed out on the guide about 1/16" from the head base.

when i spun the pump through the cam synch shaft it help 25 psi at high speed with dewalt 18v drill. and when i did that i was only getting oil though 1 push rod on left bank when i would turn the motor over., didnt take the cover off the right...

i hooked up an oil gauge and at cold start up it idles at about 10psi and after about a minute or so it starts dropping fairly quickly. during that first minute it will hold 15 psi 1500rmp. between the 1-2 minute 1500prm 10psi and drops to at most 5 at idle maybe lower but i dont wait to find out. i swapped the stock pump back in and no change.

from what sounded like a dozen pushrods getting thrown around the first start up now its just 1 maybe 2. not sure where as i havent been able to leave the seat yet.

coming to terms that the motor is going to have to come back out im just praying to come across a simple fix for some stupid mistake i made during assembly. but seems its going to be something bottom bearing related and nothing simple about that..

 

If you changes the pump out, you must have had the oil pan off ??? (that must have been fun)
You could have plastigaged the mains and rods at that point.
Awkward, but doable...

 

the oil pan isnt that hard to remove. just the starter and the pan bolts.. i was going to pull it i didnt even think about doing plastigauge in the car.. i think ill put it up on jacks and use the creeper this time my shoulders are getting raw from sliding around down there... i guess thats todays mission.. thanks for mentioning it..

 

I beg to differ, the oil pan is hard to remove (or at least the way I was trying to remove it) _ clearance issues.
There's a video here where the guy lifted the entire engine/trans off it's mounts until it hit the tunnel (I'm assuming).
This apparently allowed enough clearance of the front engine cross member...
I do know that it's a PITA to deal with the aluminum plate between the bell housing and the block.
The edge of the pan catches on it and takes a fair amount of prying to get it free.

I would like to know exactly how you removed the pan, that would be much appreciated. :-)

 

i just had mine off 2 days ago to swap oil pumps.. just the took out the 16 pan bolts and the 3 for the starter.. carefully seperated the sealant from the front and rear bearing caps and pulled the front down about 2 inches then pulled down kinda walked it down
about 1/2" -1" at a time till the back popped off.. took about 20 minutes.. maybe 30 if you count time putting it up on jackstands..

ive read about having to raise the motor to pull it but havent seen why because i have plenty of room.. maybe since its an edge model being 2wd with a 2" lift gives me more room down there.. dont know how the lift works weather suspension or body lift or whatever.. maybe taller motor mounts so the engine doesnt look even smaller sunk down in the engine compartment?

ill be checking bearing clearances soon with the engine in so ill see if i can make a video when i take off the pan..

someone mentioned an oil galley plug may have been overlooked and left out.. are there any internal ones that would keep the oil from pouring out on the ground? i do remember a few by the cam behind the timing cover but i know i installed those and the ones in the rear would be pouring in bell housing so not those ones.. otherwise i dont reacall any off hand that are internal

 

so 2 lbs of oil pressure at idle is ok? that just doesnt seem right if the gauge registers at 5.. it never use to bounce before.. if the general rule is 10psi per 1000 rpm when im at 1500 its at 10.. and idle is 2 im just saying what ive come across not that your wrong.. damn i hope your right and i can stop stressing over my motor..

 

No, 2lbs at idle is either a bad gauge or open oil passage/bearing gap, since another pump did the same
6psi is OK but would expect engine to have fairly high miles at that point

 

Don't bother with the video, you have enough on your plate, something is different in your truck then on my B3000 to allow clearance to get the pan off.
When I tried with mine, there was no way in hell that pan was coming out and I had the engine raised until it was coming in contact with the end of the transmission tunnel _ I had to remove the synchronizer.

A healthy early 50's Rolls Royce engine practically goes to zero on the oil gauge at idle with a hot engine, that's what I was going by.
That's with a mechanical gauge, so that's quite accurate.

On the other end, I've seen late 60's Jaguar's go beyond 100psi when cold and at idle, it sits at 20 psi. When going down the road it goes to 50 or 60.

Just a thought, are you using synthetic oil ? If you are, that would be an explanation _ shouldn't be using synthetic anyway as the engine isn't broken in.
IMO, the use of synthetic oils shouldn't be used on an engine that wasn't designed for it. The tolerances are not tight enough for it, even with new parts.

EDIT:
Just had a look at your first post, so it doesn't look like you used synthetic, but I'm skeptical of any oil additives, not that, that's your problem, but I never believed in all this snake oil stuff.
I've always simply believed in just a good quality oil.

 

well i decided to pull the motor.. thinkning about using platigauge under the truck didnt sound like much fun and since i still had the hood off and the hoist set up after a busy 3 hrs its now in the garage. id have to say pushing it up the driveway was the hardest part.

im a thinking its a posibility that i left a plug out. i remember taking a few out and didnt really look for them when i put them in.. just plugged them as i saw them..

im super stoked the clacking stopped though.. runnning for a few minutes and getting the rpms up a little bit really helped... guess it was just the lifters.. didnt do jack for oil pressure.. actually got worse as it warmed up...

time to start tearing into it.. id really prefer not to take the heads off.. is there any reason id need to? i dont see one as long as the pistons stay in the cylinder.

 

I had a look at my block still sitting on my bench, the oil gallery plugs are just large "hex" set screws, if you forgot to put one of them back in or even didn't tighten one of them up, there would be oil pissing out all over the place, but then again if one was lose or forgotten at the front, the excess oil would just enter the timing cover.
If you forgot one though, there would be so much loss in oil pressure that there would be none at any speed.

I don't see what's so difficult about using a bit of plastigaged while the pan is removed and the engine is still in place.
Remove one of the main bearing caps and place a bit of it in the cap and torque it down _ remove.
You should easily be able to do the same for the rods, but it's up to you.

If it turns out that the rods are not with in spec, then you will have to remove the heads, but even if it turns out to be just the crank, I don't see how you're going to be able to remove the crank with out getting the rods out of the way.
I suppose it could be done, remove a rod cap and push the piston up into the bore (one at a time) until all the pistons are up and out of the way.
You would have to be carful not to tweak one of the valves when you push each piston up towards the head, a number of valves will be open depending on where the cam position is.

At this point I think the machine took too much of the crank and the clearances are too big, or at least I can't think of anything else that would cause low oil pressure.

It's not a complicated engine, the oil flows directly from the pump into the main gallery to feed the "mains" and from what I could see, another large gallery that flows down each side to feed the lifters and cam shaft.
From there they flow through the lifters, up each push rod to oil the rockers.
It's all internal, it's not as if there are external oil lines that can leak.
The only thing that I couldn't find was how the timing chain gets it's oil, but there is probably a small pin hole somewhere that squirts oil on it.

At any rate, I'm glad the valve train noise settled down, I know when I was dealing with my noisy engine, each time I disturbed the valve train and lifters they made quite racket until oil worked its way into them.

 

omg im a dumbass... i left out not 1 but 2 oil galley plugs behind the cam sprocket.. that explains the loud valve train and low pressure.. checked pushrods and rockers.. doing a plastigauge clearence check on all the main and rod bearing then assembling and reinstalling.. glad nothing was damaged so hopefully be driving tomorrow night

the timing chain gets its oil from the front cam bearing behind the cam sprocket.. theres a channel on the bearing and thrust plate that flows to cam sprocket..

thanks all for all the help with this.. has added another little tidbit for the experience pool

 

Well that's good news that it wasn't the machine shop over-grinding the crank !

 

yeah did the plastigauge and the mains were #1 .0025 and the rest .001 and the rods were #1 .003 then #2-#6 were all .002..

popped off the calve cover and ever seal was riding up on the valve shaft.. maybe because it wasnt getting oil it it was gripping the valve and not sliding like it should? kind of a good thing instead of staying in place and burning the seal.. so im gona go with that scenario and push them down and oil them and if i burn oil ill have an idea of what it might be..

 

The valve seals should go in quite tight with a bit of effort.
When I was working on another guys engine, the machine shop ley me borrow this homemade tool that fit on the guide so the seals would press on squarely.

Looks lie you're almost home.

You've given me some incentive to get working on mine again.

 

got it up and running.. at idle has 60 psi oil pressure cold then 25psi after fully warmed up.. driving it sits around 45-60.. no valve chatter! stoked! the power steering squeals a bit not but seems to be getting quieter..

im getting a misfire only at idle. not enough to throw a DTC but enough i notice it and dashcommand tells me about it.. im using the dash command ios app to monitor info.. i see that at 0mph the misfires starting climbing and stops as soon as i touch the gas. tells me all the o2 readings and map/maf spark advance and such but i dont know the standard reading to compare my numbers to.. going to check for intake leaks..


for valve seals i compared the new seals to the old ones and the old ones had about a .5mm smaller diameter at the lower ring. the installed seals were already up off the guide so i used some skinny needle nose through the springs and compressed the rings a bit and used 2 flat head screwdrivers and pushed them down on the guides and oiled them up. turning the engine by hand they stayed in place which is good because before even by hand they were lifting off the gudes.

and it seems to be buring a little bit of oil.. even after its warm its puffing out a bit of smoke like starting on a cold morning.. figure ill give it a few hundred miles before i worry about that while the rings seat and everything finds it groove.

how should i drive it? i know that the break in period has a big impact on the life of the engine. only ran in park for about 30 min at idle idling the first 5-10 min and shut off and checked fluids. then with intermittently incresing rpms to slowly to 3100 and slowling taking back down to idle. ive been driving it lightly and letting it idle a lot. ive read mixed thingns about the bvreak in.. some say never idle some say only idle or idle for 5 min then never idle.. that roller cams can idle but solid cant.. not sure what to go by..