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  #1  
Old 12-03-2014
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hard to put into gear

Okay whenever im at a stop if i push down the clutch and immediately try to push the shifter into first it gives me a bit of resistance, and its easier to put into gear when im rolling a little bit. if i force it in it doesn't grind or jump or anything, but i dont like exerting a lot of force on the shifter for fear of bending shift forks or linkages.

I have owned two manual hondas, and they slide into first smooth as butter without any wait period.

Note that no gears grind, no slipping clutch. Maybe im just not used to these trucks?
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Old 12-04-2014
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Clutch disc is not fully disengaging so you have to manually slow down the transmission input shaft by pushing on the shifter.

The output shaft and its gears in the transmission are connected directly to the wheels, so if the wheels are moving that shaft is moving, if wheels are stopped output shaft and gears are stopped.
If input shaft is not coming to a complete stop with clutch pedal down then when you push on the shifter the syncro pushes against stopped gears and slows the input shaft down and stops it, no grinding because that's the point of the syncromesh setup.
When wheels are moving so are the output gears so still spinning input shaft gears can mesh up(match spin) easier.

Input shaft and it's gears are connected to the engine but can be disconnected by using the clutch.
The input shaft and gears are in trans fluid so will slow down and stop if "completely" disconnect from the engine.
Clutch is a friction material disc sandwiched between two metal discs(flywheel and Pressure plate)
When you press in the clutch pedal hydraulic fluid goes from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder, the slave cylinder expands and pushes on the pressure plate's springs, this moves the pressure plate away from flywheel so clutch disc is not held tightly against it.
Clutch disc is the only part attached to the input shaft, so if all is well the clutch disc and input shaft can stop spinning completely, so matches the output shaft speed when stopped, 0 spin.

BUT.......if you get a little air in the hydraulic fluid the slave doesn't push the on pressure plate enough so there is a bit of friction on the clutch disc that keeps it and the input shaft spinning.
Or there is the pilot bearing in the flywheel, this supports the end of the input shaft, this bearing allows the input shaft to stop spinning even though flywheel is at engine RPMs.
These can start to wear out and impart a bit of spin on the input shaft.

These are all common issues on ALL manual trans vehicles.

Rangers hydraulic clutches are known for air issues, PITA to bleed.
Check your clutch reservoir, if it is low check the bell housing for fluid leak.
Bleed system just to make sure that isn't the issue.
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonD View Post
Clutch disc is not fully disengaging so you have to manually slow down the transmission input shaft by pushing on the shifter.

The output shaft and its gears in the transmission are connected directly to the wheels, so if the wheels are moving that shaft is moving, if wheels are stopped output shaft and gears are stopped.
If input shaft is not coming to a complete stop with clutch pedal down then when you push on the shifter the syncro pushes against stopped gears and slows the input shaft down and stops it, no grinding because that's the point of the syncromesh setup.
When wheels are moving so are the output gears so still spinning input shaft gears can mesh up(match spin) easier.

Input shaft and it's gears are connected to the engine but can be disconnected by using the clutch.
The input shaft and gears are in trans fluid so will slow down and stop if "completely" disconnect from the engine.
Clutch is a friction material disc sandwiched between two metal discs(flywheel and Pressure plate)
When you press in the clutch pedal hydraulic fluid goes from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder, the slave cylinder expands and pushes on the pressure plate's springs, this moves the pressure plate away from flywheel so clutch disc is not held tightly against it.
Clutch disc is the only part attached to the input shaft, so if all is well the clutch disc and input shaft can stop spinning completely, so matches the output shaft speed when stopped, 0 spin.

BUT.......if you get a little air in the hydraulic fluid the slave doesn't push the on pressure plate enough so there is a bit of friction on the clutch disc that keeps it and the input shaft spinning.
Or there is the pilot bearing in the flywheel, this supports the end of the input shaft, this bearing allows the input shaft to stop spinning even though flywheel is at engine RPMs.
These can start to wear out and impart a bit of spin on the input shaft.

These are all common issues on ALL manual trans vehicles.

Rangers hydraulic clutches are known for air issues, PITA to bleed.
Check your clutch reservoir, if it is low check the bell housing for fluid leak.
Bleed system just to make sure that isn't the issue.
thank you for the detailed paragraph. How would i go about bleeding the clutch? remove the cap on the resevoir with the truck parked uphill and pump the clutch pedal?
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Old 12-04-2014
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Well.............no, there is no "way" to bleed Ranger clutches, lol

There are "ways" but I don't think even Ford has figured out a "way", out side of having the master and slave on work bench to bleed, not very practical, lol.

Google: ranger clutch bleed

There are a few videos, pick one you think might work for you.

I like this one for the master cylinder bleed but it is a PITA
Google: How To Bleed A Ford Ranger Clutch Master Cylinder & Fix a Soft Pedal
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonD View Post
Well.............no, there is no "way" to bleed Ranger clutches, lol

There are "ways" but I don't think even Ford has figured out a "way", out side of having the master and slave on work bench to bleed, not very practical, lol.

Google: ranger clutch bleed

There are a few videos, pick one you think might work for you.

I like this one for the master cylinder bleed but it is a PITA
Google: How To Bleed A Ford Ranger Clutch Master Cylinder & Fix a Soft Pedal
well typically with my hondas i would park uphill, and pump the clutch pedal with the resevoir open.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2014
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I doubt that would help with a Ranger, your honda probably had a horizontal master so uphill angle would cause air to move forward in master or slave, and would be bled first.
Ranger master is almost vertical, so no help in uphill orientation, slave could be helped that way but not really enough to bother with.
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  #7  
Old 12-29-2014
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I need to update this.

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

I noticed today while sitting at a stop light if i lift my foot not even an inch off the floor (clutch pedal), the clutch begins to engage and will actually move the truck in first gear at idle, barely an inch off the floor. I also notice that when shifting from 1st to second, if i pull on the shifter, but NOT FORCE, the shifter will suddenly "catch" into second gear in EXACTLY the same way as it would if i were clutchless shifting, which indicates its putting a terrible wear on my synchros to fast/normal shift. i need to do something about this. with the clutch to the floor, on flat ground, first gear, idle speed, the truck won't move, so i know that the clutch has disengaged, but for some reason it's still difficult to slide into first gear at a stop.
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  #8  
Old 11-19-2015
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I have bled the truck multiple times. It seemed to change the clutch feel ever so slightly, but still exhibited the same problem of being hard to put into gear.

This winter I am going to replace the clutch, throwout bearing, slave cylinder. What else should I replace while I'm in there? The way I understand it, once the tranny is dropped the mechanic will have access to the slave cylinder, TOB, and other things?
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2015
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Pilot bearing and rear mainseal if it leaking even just a tad.
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  #10  
Old 11-19-2015
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Replace master as well and bench bleed it
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  #11  
Old 01-07-2016
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Okay so a month ago the clutch assembly slave cylinder master cylinder transmission fluid and rear main seal were replaced. The engagement point moved up and every gear became really smooth like it should be. Clutch in, glides right into any gear at a stop.

Fast forward to now.
Maybe i just got used to the feel, but although it still glides into gear it feels like the engagement point moved down. It engages like a little under an inch off the floor. Its smooth and every gear shift is smooth, but it bothers me the engagement point is so close to the floor. Is it normal? If not what can i do to fix this? The clutch fluid is full and there are no leaks anywhere no grinds, but occasionally the truck will kinda "thump" softly as i slide it in reverse.
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Old 01-08-2016
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Two ways...
One, when coming to stop and trying to get the truck in first gear or any lower gear race the engine a little, helps get things aligned to let the gears come together.

Two, slip the shifter from fourth to third, even second, then to first, again lines things up.

OK three, check the fluid level in the trans.
And four... Replace the shifter and top plate on the transmission for a Hurst Unit.

Ok I'm done...
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Old 01-08-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 420stackz View Post
Okay so a month ago the clutch assembly slave cylinder master cylinder transmission fluid and rear main seal were replaced. The engagement point moved up and every gear became really smooth like it should be. Clutch in, glides right into any gear at a stop.

Fast forward to now.
Maybe i just got used to the feel, but although it still glides into gear it feels like the engagement point moved down. It engages like a little under an inch off the floor. Its smooth and every gear shift is smooth, but it bothers me the engagement point is so close to the floor. Is it normal? If not what can i do to fix this? The clutch fluid is full and there are no leaks anywhere no grinds, but occasionally the truck will kinda "thump" softly as i slide it in reverse.
May need to re-bleed the system.

Did you use a Self-adjusting pressure plate?
These should be used on non-adjustable systems like the Ranger has.
Some clutch setups have external arm that disengages or engages the throwout bearing and pressure plate, these have an adjustment that can be used as clutch disc wears down, this keeps pedal in the "middle".

With internal slave there is no way to adjust for disc wear so you use a self-adjusting pressure plate, these look different, they have a set of springs around the pressure plate, these springs push pressure plate towards flywheel as disc wears down so pedal stays in the "middle"

You CAN use non-adjusting pressure plate in a Ranger, they are less expensive, but pedal engage/disengage will change through out the life of the disc.
But usually the engagement(truck starts to move) gets higher and higher on the pedal travel until it simply won't engage, slips, because disc is too thin.

Yours read more like slave is not expanding as far as when first installed, so could be there is some air in the system, air takes up space and compresses when pedal is pushed in.
So if there was no air in the system, when you push the clutch pedal to the floor the master will push 20 units of fluid into the slave, the slave expands 1".
If there was some air then it would be compressed by pedal pressure and only 15 units flow into slave, so slave expands 3/4" and engage/disengage would be lower on the pedal travel.
These number are made up, just for use as an example of how system works

Last edited by RonD; 01-08-2016 at 11:41 AM.
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonD View Post
May need to re-bleed the system.

Did you use a Self-adjusting pressure plate?
These should be used on non-adjustable systems like the Ranger has.
Some clutch setups have external arm that disengages or engages the throwout bearing and pressure plate, these have an adjustment that can be used as clutch disc wears down, this keeps pedal in the "middle".

With internal slave there is no way to adjust for disc wear so you use a self-adjusting pressure plate, these look different, they have a set of springs around the pressure plate, these springs push pressure plate towards flywheel as disc wears down so pedal stays in the "middle"

You CAN use non-adjusting pressure plate in a Ranger, they are less expensive, but pedal engage/disengage will change through out the life of the disc.
But usually the engagement(truck starts to move) gets higher and higher on the pedal travel until it simply won't engage, slips, because disc is too thin.

Yours read more like slave is not expanding as far as when first installed, so could be there is some air in the system, air takes up space and compresses when pedal is pushed in.
So if there was no air in the system, when you push the clutch pedal to the floor the master will push 20 units of fluid into the slave, the slave expands 1".
If there was some air then it would be compressed by pedal pressure and only 15 units flow into slave, so slave expands 3/4" and engage/disengage would be lower on the pedal travel.
These number are made up, just for use as an example of how system works
ive had this problem before, where i bleed the system and the **** gets full pedal pressure again, but eventually "dies" back down to before. Right now my pedal grabs as soon as i start to lift it off the floor. It pisses me off. If he bled the system when he changed it (which he did, since new master/slave assembly), why would it change?

I did install a self adjusting pressure plate. LUK. which i read is one of the best I could have gotten for the price bracket.
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Old 01-08-2016
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Pedal still has "full pressure" as in no limpness, still feels springy, but the engagement point moved like air got in the line
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Old 01-08-2016
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and wouldnt air in the lines be immediately evident? as in as soon as i was leaving the shop i would have noticed the pedal grabbing so close to the floor? why did it take this long to get this way? The old slave/master setup and old clutch acted the same way. if i bled the system, the clutch pedal grabbed in a different spot, but after a couple weeks it would have returned to before. but once the grabbing point got close to the floor it would never get any worse.
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Old 01-08-2016
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Just drove it. Clutch grabs as soon as it isn't touching the floor. Very suspicious.... I'm getting worried.
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Old 01-08-2016
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Check the pivot point for the clutch pedal and the mounting of the pivot bar/brake pedal assembly, also the master pushrod pedal assembly.

Something could be moving around now and then causing the problem, bushings, mounting bolts, ect....bleeding it shouldn't fix it but moving the pedal around when bleeding it might.

Just guessing.
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Old 01-08-2016
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where do i look for the pivot point? or the master pushrod pedal assembly? Pics? Im gonna try to resolve this tomorrow.
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Old 01-08-2016
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top of clutch pedal arm is where it pivots, there is a bushing there

Picture of assembly here: 95 Thru 06 Ranger Genuine Ford Parts Clutch Brake Pedal Bracket Assembly | eBay

Look here for a diagram of whole system: | Repair Guides | Clutch | Master Cylinder And Reservoir | AutoZone.com

Between master and clutch pedal arm is the pushrod, it also has a bushing on the arm end.
You are checking for looseness of anything really, all should be tight no wobbling or excessive play
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Old 01-08-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonD View Post
top of clutch pedal arm is where it pivots, there is a bushing there

Picture of assembly here: 95 Thru 06 Ranger Genuine Ford Parts Clutch Brake Pedal Bracket Assembly | eBay

Look here for a diagram of whole system: | Repair Guides | Clutch | Master Cylinder And Reservoir | AutoZone.com

Between master and clutch pedal arm is the pushrod, it also has a bushing on the arm end.
You are checking for looseness of anything really, all should be tight no wobbling or excessive play
How would this affect anything? And why would the issue go away when the clutch was changed?
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Old 01-08-2016
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Don't know??

Just guessing at possibles............

You said master, slave, disc, and pressure plate were new, and did work fine for awhile.
Then said "and this has happened before"

So the only guess I can make is that the problem isn't in the master, slave, disc, or pressure plate because it happened with old ones as well as new, and that leaves...............what is posted above.
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Old 01-08-2016
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Originally Posted by RonD View Post
Don't know??

Just guessing at possibles............

You said master, slave, disc, and pressure plate were new, and did work fine for awhile.
Then said "and this has happened before"

So the only guess I can make is that the problem isn't in the master, slave, disc, or pressure plate because it happened with old ones as well as new, and that leaves...............what is posted above.
I will check tomorrow
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  #24  
Old 01-09-2016
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Originally Posted by 420stackz View Post
I will check tomorrow
Its getting worse.

I checked fluid. Full. I checked pedal assembly. No play n9 cracks in anything the plastic plunger that goes into the master kinda bows a little bit but im not sure that is the issue
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Old 01-09-2016
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I literally ripped off the shift **** trying to get into reverse. I checked the pedal bracket again. Pedal has maybe a 16th of an inch play side to side, which seems normal. In other words, its firmly mounted. Now something i noticed is when you push the clutch, the plunger to the master cylinder moves downward about 1/16th of an inch first, BEFORE it starts to actually "slide" into the sleeve. Also, where the plunger to the MC rides on the pin on the clutch pedal, it looks like it is allowed a full quarter inch of side to side play, I don't know if that affects anything. Once again, the fluid level is completely full, so I doubt there is any air in the system, especially since the mechanic was able to bench bleed the entire system outside the truck before putting in the whole new hydraulic setup.

Is the master cylinder faulty? I just put it in.... kinda doubtful but not impossible. I;m leaning away from it due to the fact that these symptoms were present before the clutch job, but anything is possible.
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