Hello everyone, before I get blasted for starting a new PATS thread, please understand that I have spent 3 days reading every post on here and other sites pertaining to the subject, and my problem is in None of them!! So here it is:

I had a 2000 Mazda B3000-2wd, manual trans., roll your own windows, lock your own doors, no frills, great running truck! I then came across a 2001 Mazda B3000 with brand new tires, auto trans., power locks, power windows, in damn good shape-except the engine was toast, and bought it for $700. I got the newer truck home, threw a battery in it and it worked as it should have, truck turned over no THEFT light or anything weird, just never started because the engine was as done as the P.O. said it was.
Here is where the problems start.... I pulled the junk motor from the '01 in Florida, where I used to live, and didn't bring it with me to NC because I had a great running motor in the 2000 and figured it was a twin so I had everything I would need for the swap. Well, after yanking the good motor out of the 2000, putting a new timing chain and gears, oil pump, and every new oil seal on the motor, I dropped it into the 2001. So far so good. I used the wiring harness from the '01 since it was already wired for the PCM and auto trans. All of the plugs were identical with the exception of the injector plugs and the plug for the coil pack, the wires were the same colors, same numbers of wires so I cut the plugs and soldered on the plugs from the '00. BAM!! Engine swap done! Put a hot battery in it and went to fire it up and head out for a test drive......and.....NOTHING!!! The f-ing PATS decided for whatever reason that I would not be finished quite yet.(I love Fords, but whoever decided this was a good idea needs a hard kick in the nuts after a hard kick in the nuts!!!!) So I am now totally stumped! Not sure how it decided to call foul when I am using the same key that turned it over before, using the harness that came with it, and changed nothing except the motor and a few stupid plugs. Nothing I did should have resulted in this as far as I know, so I need to know what some of you guys may know.
I jumped the starter relay to try and get around that stupid thing and here is what happened, it turns over the starter and supplies spark, but the injectors will not pulse. I had it running by dumping gas down the intake and found out I had spark, but the starter circuit is being killed by that awful PATS as well as the injectors(fuel pump is fine, put gauge on it and have good pressure). So what could I have done to cause this nightmare and what can I do to either fix or bypass this atrocity Ford decided was a good idea? I understand the 2005'S have no PATS, anyone ever tried using a 2005 PCM to get around this? I am at my wits' end!!!!!!

 

I answered your other post before reading this one.

So I understand correctly the anti-theft light is blinking rapidly so PATS says there is a problem with the system??

Because I wouldn't think spark would work either.

No cranking can be NSS(neutral safety switch) issue on the trans or simply a loose column shifter, a common issue with the Ford trucks, when in Park shifter on trans is not pushing NSS up enough to close contacts and pass START voltage to starter relay, try cranking in Neutral.

Did the CPS(cam position sensor) plugs match up?
There were two different kinds of CPS sensors, which use different protocols, so are not interchangeable.
CPS controls injector timing
CKP(crank position) sensor controls spark.


And since you were doing some rewiring maybe a fuse got blown disabling one of the PATS components

 

Thank you so much for both replies! I only changed out the plugs for the injectors and the coil pack, all the other plugs matched up perfectly, also I used both the cam and crank position sensors from the motor that was in the truck originally, so I am certain they are compatible since this computer used to run them before the motor was blown.
The theft light flashes very quickly when the key is switched on, then after about a minute, appears to be giving a code of either 1 or 11,,,flashes slowly, one flash at a time. I can't find anywhere what this code means. I have found several other codes, but no 1 or 11. I checked every fuse and breaker in the cab and under the hood and all are good, the battery was out and I hooked wires together of the same position, color and function so I am absolutely stumped as to why this thing would turn over and try to start the old dead motor, but now won't turn over this good one. I have been a Ford fan all my life, but Damn! did they screw up by putting this system on their vehicles!!! Thanks again for the help and I appreciate any further help!

 

key is bad...brother had the same issue in his 01 mustang

 

Thanks for the reply DJ. I don't doubt what you say one bit, and I am open to all suggestions. I do wonder though how the key could just go bad? It worked when I brought the truck home and has been resting comfortably in the switch ever since. Can a locksmith make a key that will work or do I have to take this thing to the stealership? I only got the one key from the previous owner.

 

one key...dealer trip time..they have to wipe it completely and start from scratch...and the key in my brothers car just quit out of the blue

 

I don't think the anti-theft light flashes a code number, air bag light does.
If you can rent or borrow an OBDII reader you can get the PATS DTC number, the reason the light is flashing
Good read here on what the numbers mean: https://www.motorcraftservice.com/vd...b_aid_2009.pdf
And here: https://kcss-transportation-technolo.../view/61579706

A locksmith can make and program(add) a key to the PATS memory.
Call a few to find one with the programmer and prices, they will need to come to you since vehicle doesn't run.
Have him make and add 3 keys, extra 2 won't cost that much, and if you lose 1 you can add a 3rd again without a programmer

Ford dealer is out unless you tow it in to them, they don't make house calls.

Problem is if it isn't the key that's the problem, the locksmith will just be an added expense, as said in other post you can take your key in and see if they(locksmith or Ford) can read it, any RFID reader can get the tags ID number, if key can be read then problem is in the PATS system not the key itself.

And yes, I also see no reason for the PATS system to be "engaged" if it worked before, swapping engines is done all the time without a PATS issue.
You would not have the steering column apart that's where the "wand"(around key slot) connector is, and PATS module above glove box wouldn't have been disturbed.
I would double check the PCM(computer) connector, disconnect battery again and unplug connector, give pins and holes a good look then reconnect and add battery power again.
PATS module and PCM are "married" so can not be swapped without "re-marrying", unfortunately only a Ford dealer can preform that ceremony, lol.

 

It's hard to figure out this OP's problem with a couple of threads going, all with the same truck!

 

Not hard to figure out at all actually. This one is a question about the PATS system, the other is a question about the key. See how simple?

 

Anyway, for the two guys who replied with something constructive, I really appreciate the replies and the thought you put into them!! I have decided that relying on a key that may fail at any time, and being at the mercy of the dealership to fix the problem at ridiculous costs just isn't going to work for me. So, I have decided to sell the 3.0 and trans, and it is time for a carbed 5.0/T5 conversion!!! No more PATS garbage ever again for me :)

 

ummm you may want to check your states inspection laws first....that may be illegal

 

It is, here in NC, luckily my girlfriend still lives in Florida where the liberals have not fully taken over yet and goofy emissions laws are non existent. She will now own a shiny black B5000 :)

 

??
If the issues is the 2001 PATS and has nothing to do with the new 3.0l/trans......then it will still be an issue with the 5.0l/trans.

I am not sure what is required to remove the PATS system completely from the 2001, my guess would be pre-PATS wiring harness for dash, which probably won't be compatible with all connections, so will add a later of difficulty higher than just fixing the PATS.

So I would make friends with the PATS, get it working instead of fighting it.
OBDII reader/scanner works for all vehicles made after '95 so not a bad investment/tool to have.
Make sure it can read all DTCs, engine and module codes, get the PATS DTCs and go from there to fix it.

 

All PATS issues will be done away with when I drop the carbureted 5.0 and t5 tranny in it. For that set up to work, all I need is an unlocked steering coloumn, a hot wire when key is on to the coil and a starter relay(connected to a push button if need be). PATS will never be an issue again.
I used the tranny that was originally in the truck too, the only thing I did was a motor swap and changed the plugs for fuel injectors and coil. There is no simple reason for PATS to have locked me out, and it will never be an issue again after the 5.0 conversion.
I have an OBD II scanner, all it will tell me is that there are no codes stored in the PCM and DTC button reveals nothing, choices or otherwise. Done with PATS forever. Ford list one of its biggest fans by putting that garbage on its vehicles.
Thank you for all your insight though!!
BTW, the Theft light does flash a code on this model and PATS only disabled fuel injectors and starter, just for future reference. Thanks again guys!

 

Edit...at the end of my post, it says,".choices or otherwise" , that should be, " codes or otherwise" this stupid phone changes things on me and I didn't catch it.

 

If you're gonna do the swap keep EFI. You'll thank me later

 

I suppose that isn't a bad idea DJ. I guess I could head to the scrap yard and gut out a ' 94 mustang that was hit hard in the rear that I was eyeballing the other day. If I did I would still be legal here in NC and get a few more MPG's in the process. The leather seats were real nice too :) Haven't decided what to do yet, but you're right, EFI is better than adjusting a carb every six months. There was a 95 explorer out there last week too, May be a candidate....didn't the 95 Explorers have GT40 heads? At any rate, I have a good 3.0 liter for sale, new valve cover gaskets, intake gasket, front main seal, rear main seal, oil pan gasket, and timing chain and gears, water pump(new not a reman),and oil pump. The alternator is about 4 months old and the a/c compressor is a good one. Any takers?? Any ideas what that would be worth? Also have a good m5od-r1 clutch, flywheel, and nifty 7 ball shifter included at no charge. I will take$300 for that.

 

You are correct the spark stays on, starter and fuel are restricted.

And it does flash a code after 1 minute of fast flashing.
Codes are here:
11 - immo control module not connected (wiring, reader coil connection, control module connection etc)
12 - immo control module not working correctly (duff immo module)
13 - key code not received or key programming failed (faulty key or key obscured)
14 - partial key code received (faulty or obscured key)
15 - key not programmed into immo module (reprogram or try different key)
16 - faulty link between immo module and ECU (wiring fault)
21 - less than three keys programmed (program more keys as necessary)
22 - ROM error - no ECU ID stored (duff ECU)
23 - ECU ID mismatch (duff ECU)
31 - code transmission error between immo control unit and ECU (wiring or ECU programming error)
32 - ECU/immo control unit comms - no response from ECU (wiring, immo control module)
33 - comms error (wiring, duff ECU or duff immo control unit)

So your key is OK as far as we known, or you would get code 13 or 14

11 means you probably just have a disconnected wire/connector

"Reader Coil" is the ring around the key slot, it is also called the transceiver, connector is in the lower steering column maybe wiring got pulled on??


Yes, OBD II readers don't always read B or U codes, just P codes


And I agree with other poster, distributor and carbs suck way more than PATS, I grew up with these, and I love to work on cars/trucks, some like weekend Golf, I like weekend mechanics.
And I have to say I would not switch back to carb or distributor for love or money, points suck the big one, and rebuilding and tuning carbs is so "been there done that" for me, I wouldn't enjoy it at all.

But "to each his own", just throwing in my 2 cents, and worth every penny, all 2 of them, lol.

 

Please consider the future generations air quiality. Introducing your children to unnessesary polutants placed in the air by what you consider "goofy emissions laws" can be seen as inconsiderate. Its good to know that everyone does not share your thoughts; otherwise we would have poorer air quality in our major cities than we already have now.

I don't see how a PATS system would cause reason to go backwards in technology. Not understanding its operation should not warrant its removal. RonD has done an excellent job in helping you overcome it, and provide a way to make it work, save you some money, and help the air quality for the rest of us. The latter being a huge bonus.

And my comment on a double type post topic was only meant to help you, not intended for you to become somewhat sarcastic. I'll guess you are only frustrated with your non start issue, and hense the reasons for your comments.

Hope it all works out for you.

 

lol my tbird..im constantly screwing with the carb on that trying to get it set right lol

 

Bucko, I will go as far back in technology as I see fit. Lib trolls such as yourself have never had an influence on the decisions I make in my life and your obviously one of those suckers who worships at the b.s.global warming(climate change, whatever they'll call it next)religion's alter. Your posts have done absolutely NOTHING to help with the problem I posted about and have fully exposed you for the liberal troll you are. Any further posts by you on my threads will be completely ignored. Besides, I hear Pastor Gore calling you, your Kool-Aid is ready. Go away.

 

Ron and DJ, again thanks for the help and insight. I went out and picked clean a 1995 Explorer. Got the 5.0 h.o., wiring harnesses, pcm, instrument cluster and the v8 tags off of the fenders. Then I moved over a couple rows and found a Fox body mustang with a T-5 and took it, the pedals, and the clutch/pressure plate, flywheel and fluid reservoir. I also grabbed the computer from the mustang since I am not sure yet how the explorer pcm is going to react to not having a tranny to boss around. Now for the real work.....tbc.
Oh, and all your thought and responses have not been in vein, I have a friend who's PATS has them locked out too, I will be putting all of your info to work figuring out her truck this week.

 

Ok so I just scanned through this post quick so I don't have all the facts. I usually don't respond to threads that have this much wording or replies but I'll just through out some information and hopefully that helps.

The pats system has a few key components the PCM, the PATS module, key, and pats transponder.

After final assembly at the plant, the PCM and the PATS module are paired together along with the chip in the key. When you start the car the pats module reads the key information given to it from the transponder (ring around ignition switch). If the information is correct the PATS module sends a coded signal to the PCM via OBDII to tell the PCM that it is ok to fire off the injectors and then the PATS grounds the starter relay (I don't know if the PATS will ground the relay if the PCM is wrong, it may wait for a return signal from the PCM first). If the PATS doesn't read the correct key or the signal that the PCM is sent isn't correct your PATS light will flash.

The only component I think that can be switch without dealer programming is the transponder since it just reads the signal.

Do you have the original PCM, PATS module, and key in the truck you are trying to start?

 

Good. I can only hope your threads will go ignored, as most folks value the air they breath, and folks like yourself that do nothing but insult those that respect the clean air act for our children should be ignored.