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New Ideas Have a new idea for your Ford Ranger? General discussion of new ideas for the Ford Ranger.

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  #26  
Old 05-13-2008
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Its not a Ranger, it has a floor shifter
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  #27  
Old 05-15-2008
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Anyone else try it yet?
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  #28  
Old 05-16-2008
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I found a website the other day that sold plans to make it.

Myself and like 3-4 other guys at work are talking about making some and putting them on our trucks.

I will let you know how it works out.
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  #29  
Old 05-19-2008
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Originally Posted by outdoorsman View Post
I liked that YouTube video too. Was that done in a Ranger or Explorer? I thought the interior looked familiar. Air vents?
You do know that instentainous fuel economy will go up when you let off the gas. Their numbers were not consistant at all, I wonder how they were getting it to jump around with the "flip of a switch"
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  #30  
Old 05-19-2008
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^^ You just quoted a guy who doesn't know jack crap about this HHO stuff. They don't teach me this stuff in Criminal Justice classes. I said it was a cool video because I liked it and thought it was neat. Thanks for quoting me, lol
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  #31  
Old 05-19-2008
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Originally Posted by CBFranger View Post
You do know that instentainous fuel economy will go up when you let off the gas. Their numbers were not consistant at all, I wonder how they were getting it to jump around with the "flip of a switch"
the rpm stays constant on the scan guage. i think they said it was on cruise control. the "smack" has dicredited their flip of the switch mileage results anyways. something about how they are using a map voltage adjuster. i agree that the only way to test it for real is to calculate it yourself (mileage/gallons used). that would be a really long video :). either way it was an interesting video.
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  #32  
Old 05-19-2008
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I think that the high fuel economy is because it is measured while it is on and using the H + O2 but for the most part it is spent just ''charging'' up the gas and not consuming any gas, just taking electricity off the alternator so the true mpg is not that high. Does that make any sense?
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  #33  
Old 05-20-2008
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well, im sending away for one, i think its one of the cheaper ones. ill put it on my 2007 ford ranger, ill let you guys know how it works.
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  #34  
Old 05-20-2008
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please do, I'd love to know, even 3-5mpg it would be worth it IMO
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  #35  
Old 05-20-2008
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The head auto mechanic teacher at my tech school is in the process of making one.

Brenton
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  #36  
Old 06-02-2008
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This is very very very tempting.

I heard you also need o2 sensor spacers? I'm almost ready to buy something here...for the price you can't beat it

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hydro...spagenameZWDVW

I just don't know how good it will be...and if it will work!
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  #37  
Old 06-06-2008
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Well I ended up buying a kit and it was only 109 with the MAF sensor enhancer. I just have to wait for it to get here, then fine tune and install. Can't wait to get 20+mpg! About 10 people over on another site run the similar kit and have gotten over 50% increases.

We'll see. I don't have a scangauge, and I know they aren't accurate when you use a MAF enhancer, so I'll do realtime data.
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  #38  
Old 06-07-2008
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This is a plausable thing to do. However there are some basics that can't be over come. Conservation of energy is one. And more importantly the recipricating internal engine is highly in-efficient to begin with. It's commonly accepted at a rating of 20%. Meaning that between thermal efficiency and mechanical efficiency, your only getting 20% of the energy that the fuel contains.

This new craze of HHO does **not** address this issue. All it does is consume one kind of fuel in order to make another kind. Maybe it will improve your milage. But it's not feasible to do on a daily driver basis for most people. I bet it'll take less than a year for most people to abandon it.

Making a ranger get say.. 10% more efficient in MPG is akin to spraying a perfume on a piece of poo. Yeah I suppose it'll make it "better". But it won't last and people will only fall for this for only so long.

If you guys want to increase MPG on a ranger here are some basic & more effective things to do first.
Driving technique. (Absolutely number one thing to change. If your touching the brake your wasting fuel)
Tire pressure. (only go 2-3 psi over whats called for. The gains in decreased friction are very very small when more than 3psi)
Check for dragging brakes and bearings.
Weight of vehicle (get rid of stuff you don't need to lug around)
Ignition in good state of tune
Use real gas instead of this 10% blended junk.
Atomize the fuel as best you can. (clean injectors & carburated engines do indeed respond well to acetone blends)

Now if you techies just have to do something more? Underdrive pullies, e-fan, and tonou covers are good for a little something.

And if your still not satisfied and want even more out of a ranger?
Alright you hard core guys can try this. Get a set of 02 signal modifiers, run 93 octane fuel, and change the plugs to one range colder. I bet you could find 2mpg right there. Of coarse your cats will burn out prematurely.. but hey what do the ford calibration engineers know?


OH and btw, my last tank was 21.3mpg in mixed 50/50 driving during motown rush hour traffic. (06 FX4, auto, 4.10s mods listed on my web page)
Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 06-07-2008 at 08:48 AM.
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  #39  
Old 06-07-2008
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I see 15mpg quite averagely.

On the other forum, one of the guys has a jeep on 35's with 4.88's, he was getting 14-15, now he's at 23, with just one HHO, and a MAF signal modifier (.5v).

If I could even break 20, I'd be happy.
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  #40  
Old 06-09-2008
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Guys, I've been reading and reading and thinking about this HHO thing over the weekend. Many people online throw conjecture around about it as if they have taken into account all the parameters. But yet no one tests it.. as as a good engineer should before drawing a hard & fast conclusion.

The genuine experts (egg heads like me) calculate all kinds of losses which are indeed true. (conservation of energy) But what I've seen **nobody** metion is the unused power thats already being produced.

Using my OBD2 softwares, the most loaded car I've ever measured is a 98 ford contour 4cyl. At idle w/AC and lights on it's using 60% of the power (TQ) being produced by the engine. Nearly all others including the ranger are down in the 15-20% area at idle. And generally run in the 30-50% area when driving down the hwy at 70mph (steady state / flat & level roads)

This is partly why cars are so in-efficent. Power produced that's simply over kill and wasted with every revolution of the crankshaft.

IMO a HHO generator is tapping into "free" power simply because it's using TQ (via the alt) thats not being used. That right there is an efficiecy gain even at idle. The percentage of efficiency with increased rpms would be even better.

You guys with a 4cyl ranger might see a bit more fuel consumption at idle because of the increased load. But IMO as soon as you were driving it wouldn't be an issue. It would be akin to running a stereo with a amp and sub. As soon as your rpms go up the fuel consumption from the added load is not really measureable.

Just some thoughts as I continue to consider this topic...

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 06-09-2008 at 09:43 AM.
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  #41  
Old 06-09-2008
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What?

The alt matches the demand of the electrical system as it is needed. As electrical demand goes up, the alt produces more current, in turn this puts more drag on the engine. The drag of the alt is not constant by any means. The enigne doesnt produce excess torque that magically diappears and your alt isnt overcharging your battery constantly.

When you are cruising at a constant speed your engine is produce enough power to keep you at speed, run your AC compressor (if your AC is on), run your electrical assesories, run the water pump and the fan. If there is excess power being produce the vehicle will gradually accelerate and if there isnt quite enough it will gradually decelerate. Because we cant set our throttle position that well, even crusie controll on flat ground is constantly making minute adjustments.
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  #42  
Old 06-09-2008
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I'll let you guys know exact mpg increases when it's installed. I'll be running a MAF enhancer too.

I can't provide much more than just the facts of MPG
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  #43  
Old 06-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBFryman View Post
What?

The alt matches the demand of the electrical system as it is needed. As electrical demand goes up, the alt produces more current, in turn this puts more drag on the engine. The drag of the alt is not constant by any means. The enigne doesnt produce excess torque that magically diappears and your alt isnt overcharging your battery constantly.

When you are cruising at a constant speed your engine is produce enough power to keep you at speed, run your AC compressor (if your AC is on), run your electrical assesories, run the water pump and the fan. If there is excess power being produce the vehicle will gradually accelerate and if there isnt quite enough it will gradually decelerate. Because we cant set our throttle position that well, even crusie controll on flat ground is constantly making minute adjustments.
Respectfully.. your wrong in your assumptions. The engine is producing X amount of TQ at a given moment in time. The **only time** you are using 100% of the TQ is when your at WOT. The rest of the time your only using a portition of whats already been made via fuel/air/ignition.

If the PCM sees a drop in rpms (because of increased load) it'll do several things to increase power. It'll increase timing, adjust the IAC, and adjust fuel. (assuming throttle is stationary) btw, I'm sure the PCM operates in a more complicated way than how I simplified it. I'm not sure how it determines when to increase fuel. Those inputs I don't know.. but I do know what I've observed. Use a software like autotap and you can see the fuel & timing adjust to meet demands. For instance sitting at idle I can turn everything in my ranger on and the rpms don't drop and neither does it use more fuel to meet the increased electrical demand. The calculated load does increase.. but it's such a small amount that the PCM does'nt add fuel. Hence my point of adding a HHO system which would only require electricity from the engine. Yes in the grand scheme of things it requires fuel to make it. But I'm saying it's using fuel that's being thrown away. Which I propose to be "free" power. (aka increased efficiency)

My whole point here for this HHO discussion is that given the 10-15amp draw a kit requires is not enough to make a dent in fuel consumption. At least not enough to be measureable. The only concession I'd give on this point is at idle. At idle and on a low displacement motor you might see the PCM use more fuel to maintain commanded rpm.

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 06-09-2008 at 10:49 AM.
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  #44  
Old 06-09-2008
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Originally Posted by jrpro130 View Post
I can't provide much more than just the facts of MPG
None of us can really. We are not doing truely scientific studies. IMO thats all fine and well for the true egg heads to point at. IMO what really matters is how much *money* you put into going a certian *distance*. After all.. that's the ultimate goal right.

Measure this on a avg basis... and it'll be good enough for me. Say 5 tanks off HHO and 5 tanks on HHO and driven in similar weather & roads.

*If* I choose to do this. I would also measure A/F ratios and possibly EGTs. At this point I'm not convinced that folks aren't just leaning out the A/F ratio.


Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 06-09-2008 at 11:35 AM.
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  #45  
Old 06-09-2008
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I have an average of 15.5mpg over 7 tanks. I have gotten 16 and 14 pretty consistently.

I'll be installing it the day it comes (hopefullly that is soon) and I'll post up pictures and/or results if I end up rolling through an entire tank of gas.
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  #46  
Old 06-09-2008
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Excellent Ricky. Keep us posted... and I in particular am interested in how you address and experience HHO production for idle situations.

I still don't understand what the PCM does at those times.

Do you have a scanguage?

Rich
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  #47  
Old 06-09-2008
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LOL, well I sent a message to the seller of the HYDRO SUPER 2. I listed 9 specific questions to this guy who is supposedly, in Ala, and has been using HHO for 20 years. I've been to Alabama and know they have a better education system than this guy reflects. Here is his elequent & informative response.

"1 between engine and airfilter does not change Idle just enough added to make gas burn its best eiectrnic is better except there is nothing for wideband except o2 extenders but I have herd of big gains with just mass air flow and IAT adjusted with HHO emissons go down I'm told if you add to much HHO gas milage drops when power stops it stops instantly its not a high pressure system like some for safty and I drained the one on my car with it on just to see and as the water drained the amps droped to nothing because of the design if there is no water the power has no way to travel to ground so its like you cut the power."
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  #48  
Old 06-09-2008
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Excellent Ricky. Keep us posted... and I in particular am interested in how you address and experience HHO production for idle situations.

I still don't understand what the PCM does at those times.

Do you have a scanguage?

Rich
I do not have a scangauge, but I'm about to buy one.
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  #49  
Old 06-09-2008
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I built my own from vids on youtube, total investment: ~$20 (+/- .50) I've driven about 50-60 miles ish, but then the generator blew up. I've just got it back together today. It produces about .5 L per min. I need to gas up and see where I'm at, but I'm only expecting about 1 mpg increase from 14.5 in the city.

Also, even if you don't put it on your truck, hydrogen is a lot of fun to play with, ie. it's more explosive than gasoline. ;-)
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  #50  
Old 06-09-2008
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Hey Ricky, I've been skimming over this thread and it sounds like a really interesting idea. I may have missed it, but since it sounds like you already ordered everything I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking how much did everything run you? And out of that investment what kind of MPG gains do you expect to achieve?
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