Fuel issue after timing chain replacement
Fuel issue after timing chain replacement
I’ve got a 2006 Ranger 4.0L (180K) that I replaced the timing chain on and now have a no start issue. Turns over just fine. If I spray starting fluid into the throttle body it will run for 20/30 seconds then shuts off. The fuel pump was replaced in January but through warranty went ahead and replaced it again with filter. Since I had the engine out I also replaced the injectors and plugs. I jumped the FP relay and the pump is working fine (good pressure) but will only start for a second then die. The “PATS” appears to be Ok. No quick flashing and lights up about every 5 seconds with key off (plus starts with starting fluid)
Is there a possible sensor that I missed on the reinstall that will prevent the injectors to not pulse/ PCM not engage a ground to injectors? TIA
Is there a possible sensor that I missed on the reinstall that will prevent the injectors to not pulse/ PCM not engage a ground to injectors? TIA
Welcome to the forum
If 50/50 test gets it to start then spark is working which means crank sensor is working, that's the ONLY sensor that can cause a no start, so not a sensor issue
Watch the CEL(check engine light)
It should come on with key on
Then it should go OFF when starter motor is activated, engine is turning, this means computer IS getting a timing pulse from Crank Sensor
So just a confirmation that its working
So the 2006 4.0l SOHC has a fuel pressure test port on the fuel rail, many 4.0l SOHC engines did not?
Fuel pump running doesn't always mean fuel pressure at the engine, 99% of the time it would, but not 100%, fuel filter can block flow to the engine
You can rent NOID lights, to test if injectors are pulsing
I assume battery has been unhooked for awhile
I would unhook one battery cable again for 5 minutes, then hook it back up to reset software in computer
With key on you WILL hear the fuel pump run for 2 seconds if PATS is OK
Repeat key off and then ON to make sure you hear this
If you don't hear it then PATS in the computer may be the issue, this is different than PATS in the cluster
In 2006 PATS test is done in the Cluster by PATS module, if key passes the test this module grounds starter relay so starter motor will work, and THEN sends an "OK to start" message to the engine computer, if computer is not getting this message then NO fuel pump and NO injectors, but spark still works
So it would be an odd ball occurrence, but could happen, the cluster and engine computer(PCM) are a matched "set", they are "married" at the factory so they can "talk" to each other, so you can't swap out either
But swapping or R&Ring the engine wouldn't matter
I would pull off the 104-wire connector on the PCM, inspect it and then put connector back on, maybe wiring got pulled on or ??, during the swap and the CAN bus wires used to sends the "OK to start" message are not making good contact in the connector
But I would expect flashing THEFT light and code 16 - CAN communications error
If you have an ODB2 reader see if it can "talk" to the PCM, uses the same CAN Bus wires as far as I know
If 50/50 test gets it to start then spark is working which means crank sensor is working, that's the ONLY sensor that can cause a no start, so not a sensor issue
Watch the CEL(check engine light)
It should come on with key on
Then it should go OFF when starter motor is activated, engine is turning, this means computer IS getting a timing pulse from Crank Sensor
So just a confirmation that its working
So the 2006 4.0l SOHC has a fuel pressure test port on the fuel rail, many 4.0l SOHC engines did not?
Fuel pump running doesn't always mean fuel pressure at the engine, 99% of the time it would, but not 100%, fuel filter can block flow to the engine
You can rent NOID lights, to test if injectors are pulsing
I assume battery has been unhooked for awhile
I would unhook one battery cable again for 5 minutes, then hook it back up to reset software in computer
With key on you WILL hear the fuel pump run for 2 seconds if PATS is OK
Repeat key off and then ON to make sure you hear this
If you don't hear it then PATS in the computer may be the issue, this is different than PATS in the cluster
In 2006 PATS test is done in the Cluster by PATS module, if key passes the test this module grounds starter relay so starter motor will work, and THEN sends an "OK to start" message to the engine computer, if computer is not getting this message then NO fuel pump and NO injectors, but spark still works
So it would be an odd ball occurrence, but could happen, the cluster and engine computer(PCM) are a matched "set", they are "married" at the factory so they can "talk" to each other, so you can't swap out either
But swapping or R&Ring the engine wouldn't matter
I would pull off the 104-wire connector on the PCM, inspect it and then put connector back on, maybe wiring got pulled on or ??, during the swap and the CAN bus wires used to sends the "OK to start" message are not making good contact in the connector
But I would expect flashing THEFT light and code 16 - CAN communications error
If you have an ODB2 reader see if it can "talk" to the PCM, uses the same CAN Bus wires as far as I know
Last edited by RonD; May 24, 2021 at 01:05 PM.
The “Cel” light does come on with and off with start. OBD2 is talking and does read the vehicle but has no codes.
I checked the fuel pressure at the filter (out) and it was good. Can’t see the fuel test port and my pressure won’t screw on to it for some reason (that I can’t see)
Ive done the 5 minute battery thing like 3 times with no change.
I can definitely hear the fuel pump cycle for 2 seconds at key on.
Something that I forgot to mention is with trying to start the engine, after trying 3 or 4 different times I hear the alarm chirp (about 3 chirps) then stops.
I did disconnect the large connector located on top of the engine and checked pins (good)
Since I never touched the PCM, I didn’t mess with that harness.
Don’t have a NOID light but will rent one.
What are your thoughts if they fail NOID?
I think I answered all you questions.
I checked the fuel pressure at the filter (out) and it was good. Can’t see the fuel test port and my pressure won’t screw on to it for some reason (that I can’t see)
Ive done the 5 minute battery thing like 3 times with no change.
I can definitely hear the fuel pump cycle for 2 seconds at key on.
Something that I forgot to mention is with trying to start the engine, after trying 3 or 4 different times I hear the alarm chirp (about 3 chirps) then stops.
I did disconnect the large connector located on top of the engine and checked pins (good)
Since I never touched the PCM, I didn’t mess with that harness.
Don’t have a NOID light but will rent one.
What are your thoughts if they fail NOID?
I think I answered all you questions.
Welcome to the forum
If 50/50 test gets it to start then spark is working which means crank sensor is working, that's the ONLY sensor that can cause a no start, so not a sensor issue
Watch the CEL(check engine light)
It should come on with key on
Then it should go OFF when starter motor is activated, engine is turning, this means computer IS getting a timing pulse from Crank Sensor
So just a confirmation that its working
So the 2006 4.0l SOHC has a fuel pressure test port on the fuel rail, many 4.0l SOHC engines did not?
Fuel pump running doesn't always mean fuel pressure at the engine, 99% of the time it would, but not 100%, fuel filter can block flow to the engine
You can rent NOID lights, to test if injectors are pulsing
I assume battery has been unhooked for awhile
I would unhook one battery cable again for 5 minutes, then hook it back up to reset software in computer
With key on you WILL hear the fuel pump run for 2 seconds if PATS is OK
Repeat key off and then ON to make sure you hear this
If you don't hear it then PATS in the computer may be the issue, this is different than PATS in the cluster
In 2006 PATS test is done in the Cluster by PATS module, if key passes the test this module grounds starter relay so starter motor will work, and THEN sends an "OK to start" message to the engine computer, if computer is not getting this message then NO fuel pump and NO injectors, but spark still works
So it would be an odd ball occurrence, but could happen, the cluster and engine computer(PCM) are a matched "set", they are "married" at the factory so they can "talk" to each other, so you can't swap out either
But swapping or R&Ring the engine wouldn't matter
I would pull off the 104-wire connector on the PCM, inspect it and then put connector back on, maybe wiring got pulled on or ??, during the swap and the CAN bus wires used to sends the "OK to start" message are not making good contact in the connector
But I would expect flashing THEFT light and code 16 - CAN communications error
If you have an ODB2 reader see if it can "talk" to the PCM, uses the same CAN Bus wires as far as I know
If 50/50 test gets it to start then spark is working which means crank sensor is working, that's the ONLY sensor that can cause a no start, so not a sensor issue
Watch the CEL(check engine light)
It should come on with key on
Then it should go OFF when starter motor is activated, engine is turning, this means computer IS getting a timing pulse from Crank Sensor
So just a confirmation that its working
So the 2006 4.0l SOHC has a fuel pressure test port on the fuel rail, many 4.0l SOHC engines did not?
Fuel pump running doesn't always mean fuel pressure at the engine, 99% of the time it would, but not 100%, fuel filter can block flow to the engine
You can rent NOID lights, to test if injectors are pulsing
I assume battery has been unhooked for awhile
I would unhook one battery cable again for 5 minutes, then hook it back up to reset software in computer
With key on you WILL hear the fuel pump run for 2 seconds if PATS is OK
Repeat key off and then ON to make sure you hear this
If you don't hear it then PATS in the computer may be the issue, this is different than PATS in the cluster
In 2006 PATS test is done in the Cluster by PATS module, if key passes the test this module grounds starter relay so starter motor will work, and THEN sends an "OK to start" message to the engine computer, if computer is not getting this message then NO fuel pump and NO injectors, but spark still works
So it would be an odd ball occurrence, but could happen, the cluster and engine computer(PCM) are a matched "set", they are "married" at the factory so they can "talk" to each other, so you can't swap out either
But swapping or R&Ring the engine wouldn't matter
I would pull off the 104-wire connector on the PCM, inspect it and then put connector back on, maybe wiring got pulled on or ??, during the swap and the CAN bus wires used to sends the "OK to start" message are not making good contact in the connector
But I would expect flashing THEFT light and code 16 - CAN communications error
If you have an ODB2 reader see if it can "talk" to the PCM, uses the same CAN Bus wires as far as I know
If no NOID pulses and fuel injectors have 12volts with key on, then it has to be PCM issue, which really makes no sense at all if all that was done was a remove and repair to the engine
Injectors all get 12volts with key on, its from 1 wire that just daisy chains from one injector to the next
Then each injector has its own ground wire that runs back to the PCM
PCM grounds the injector to open it
I think 2006 has the large 30-wire connector for the engine harness???
Could be 12v wire is not making a good connection
So no power at injectors
With key on either wire on a plugged in injector should show 12volts
Red wire is usually the color of the 12v injector wire, at all 6 injectors, brown/white color was also used in later years
Injectors all get 12volts with key on, its from 1 wire that just daisy chains from one injector to the next
Then each injector has its own ground wire that runs back to the PCM
PCM grounds the injector to open it
I think 2006 has the large 30-wire connector for the engine harness???
Could be 12v wire is not making a good connection
So no power at injectors
With key on either wire on a plugged in injector should show 12volts
Red wire is usually the color of the 12v injector wire, at all 6 injectors, brown/white color was also used in later years
I can't check till tomorrow with the NOID light. I don't see the PCM either. I'm hoping maybe a bad wire at the large connector from bending it back out of the way to get the engine out.
I'll let you know tomorrow. Thanks for your knowledge.
I'll let you know tomorrow. Thanks for your knowledge.
So I picked up a NOID light yesterday. I only checked one injector but it has 12v but nothing with the NOID light when the key is turned to “Run”.
Which means you think an issue with the PCM? There’s no ground wire that I missed? I’m thinking PCM as well but why did it just go out with an engine R&R? I’m grasping because I don’t really want to go down that road.
Which means you think an issue with the PCM? There’s no ground wire that I missed? I’m thinking PCM as well but why did it just go out with an engine R&R? I’m grasping because I don’t really want to go down that road.
Darn
I would be hard pressed to think of any reason the PCM would do this
PCM does have 3 separate grounds but would expect spark to also be disabled if it was a ground issue
Check the CAM sensor plug in on drivers side valve cover, its a long shot, cam sensor is to fine tune injector timing and spark timing, crank sensor is the main timing sensor
On the 3.0ls no cam sensor pulse did disable fuel, but because it was also an oil pump sensor, no cam pulse meant no oil pump(possibly)
And there should be a Code if cam sensor pulse was not there or didn't "match" crank sensor timing
Can your OBD2 see "live data", i.e. cam sensor and crank sensor data
And can it see "B" or "C" codes, body and chassis codes?
There is a software called ForScan, and a forum for using it, it uses the OBD port to communicate with PCM, so you need an OBD to USB cable to use it on a laptop
Its close to what Ford Shops use to diagnose PCM issues, its free to try and not expensive to buy
You can't just swap PCMs in 2006, its "married" to the instrument cluster
I would be hard pressed to think of any reason the PCM would do this
PCM does have 3 separate grounds but would expect spark to also be disabled if it was a ground issue
Check the CAM sensor plug in on drivers side valve cover, its a long shot, cam sensor is to fine tune injector timing and spark timing, crank sensor is the main timing sensor
On the 3.0ls no cam sensor pulse did disable fuel, but because it was also an oil pump sensor, no cam pulse meant no oil pump(possibly)
And there should be a Code if cam sensor pulse was not there or didn't "match" crank sensor timing
Can your OBD2 see "live data", i.e. cam sensor and crank sensor data
And can it see "B" or "C" codes, body and chassis codes?
There is a software called ForScan, and a forum for using it, it uses the OBD port to communicate with PCM, so you need an OBD to USB cable to use it on a laptop
Its close to what Ford Shops use to diagnose PCM issues, its free to try and not expensive to buy
You can't just swap PCMs in 2006, its "married" to the instrument cluster
Run or Start with engine cranking ?
Yes +1^^^^
Missed that part
NOID light would only flash on and off when engine is cranking over
The injectors are not grounded with key on, or engine would instantly flood out
Injectors are pulsed grounded to let in some fuel for start up, that's when NOID lights flash, the ground time is so short that regular 12v test light wouldn't come on, thats why NOID lights are used
Missed that part
NOID light would only flash on and off when engine is cranking over
The injectors are not grounded with key on, or engine would instantly flood out
Injectors are pulsed grounded to let in some fuel for start up, that's when NOID lights flash, the ground time is so short that regular 12v test light wouldn't come on, thats why NOID lights are used
So. Key in “start” position and the NOID light flashes (only checked one as the rest are a pain to get to) but will if I have too.
Fuel - I can’t get a fitting to screw onto the fuel port at the end for the rail so I disconnected the line at the filter and put my gauge in line and Both before (60psi) and after (60psi). So if I have 60psi after the filter and the injector(s) are pulsing, vehicles runs great on starting fluid . . .
What am I missing here?
Fuel - I can’t get a fitting to screw onto the fuel port at the end for the rail so I disconnected the line at the filter and put my gauge in line and Both before (60psi) and after (60psi). So if I have 60psi after the filter and the injector(s) are pulsing, vehicles runs great on starting fluid . . .
What am I missing here?
If engine starts by adding fuel manually, so you have spark, and its at the right time
And NOID Light Flashes, so injectors should be opening, even one injector opening would get engine to fire at least
Then you are left with no "fuel" in the gas tank, its water, lol
Or no fuel at the injector, blocked fuel line
And NOID Light Flashes, so injectors should be opening, even one injector opening would get engine to fire at least
Then you are left with no "fuel" in the gas tank, its water, lol
Or no fuel at the injector, blocked fuel line
Totally stumped.
Was able to finally check fuel pressure at the fuel port on the rail. 58psi.
I know there is gas in the tank (3/4 full) as I had just replaced the pump. Short of lighting a match, I’m pretty sure its not water. lol
I again sprayed starter fluid into the TB and it ran for a good 30 to 40 seconds. I actually thought it was going to keep running.
With no starter fluid and just turning the key, it starts for 1 (maybe 2) seconds then dies.
I know I’ve picked your brains but if you got anything up your sleeve, I’m open to hear it.
TIA
Was able to finally check fuel pressure at the fuel port on the rail. 58psi.
I know there is gas in the tank (3/4 full) as I had just replaced the pump. Short of lighting a match, I’m pretty sure its not water. lol
I again sprayed starter fluid into the TB and it ran for a good 30 to 40 seconds. I actually thought it was going to keep running.
With no starter fluid and just turning the key, it starts for 1 (maybe 2) seconds then dies.
I know I’ve picked your brains but if you got anything up your sleeve, I’m open to hear it.
TIA
Can you watch the pressure with engine started , as it dies, does it stay at 58psi?
If not fuel pump is shutting off
If you can keep it running by spraying in fuel then spark is staying on and injectors are shutting off or you are losing fuel pressure
Can you check computer for codes?
If not fuel pump is shutting off
If you can keep it running by spraying in fuel then spark is staying on and injectors are shutting off or you are losing fuel pressure
Can you check computer for codes?
So I monitored the fuel pressure at the rail and sprayed fluid into the TB and started the vehicle. By playing with the throttle I could keep it running for about a minute plus. The fuel pressure actually went to about 63psi and stayed there the whole time it ran. I also had unplugged an injector and placed a NOID light on it to monitor it as well. Light continued to flash while the vehicle was running.
I had a friend helping me by starting it while I monitored everything. Later yesterday I realized that I had not checked for codes so I went out to do so and found that he had left the key on so now the battery is dead. So no codes to see. I’m charging the battery and will do this process again to see if it throws a CEL.
I had a friend helping me by starting it while I monitored everything. Later yesterday I realized that I had not checked for codes so I went out to do so and found that he had left the key on so now the battery is dead. So no codes to see. I’m charging the battery and will do this process again to see if it throws a CEL.
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