yes jeff i have done the glove test multiple times today with no movement of the glove. it still has a lot of tiny bubbles in straight water! its still sucking air with a brand new radiator. i think you may be right about the cooper spay gasket may have gave up the ghost.lol not bad for 5k miles. this last temp test,checked the water before start and it was low again, topped off and started again. let it idle for a half hour and went to check temp. the temp was were it should be around 150ish.after i shut it off i pulled the pressure relief lever on the rad cap and it gurgled the over flow tank then stopped. it was low again and im gona check it again once it cools back down to see if it sucked air or coolant. as for the puddle at the back of the engine i cant see as im not tall enuff even with a five gallon bucket to stand on and the intake is in the way or i just dont know where to look! lol

edit: the top of my finder is arm pit level so i need the osha approved bucket to stand on even with me being 6' tall rotf!

 

and the only thing left that i havent replaced are the hoses which i think ill do tomorrow in between the rain showers ,even though they all look good

 

Yes, 1999 with have TTY(torque to yield) head bolts, so never re-torque them, never even reuse them

Yes do the Glove Test and either take that off the table or find out for sure if that's the problem
It is FREE, easy to do and 100% accurate

Why don't ALL mechanics use the Glove Test?
They did 50 years ago and back to early 1900's, when cooling systems were first used

But how do you charge a customer for this kind of low-tech test today, a glove, or balloon(old way), to test for cylinder leak?????
"I could have done that MYSELF!!!, how can you charge me for that??"
"Isn't there some machine or instrument now-a-days?"
Actually no, nothing as good.
Compression test can't ID smaller leaks, and even low cylinder pressure can be a few things so not specific
Chemical test(Block test) can give FALSE positive, and do 25%-30% of the time, more than a few people have paid for upper engine rebuild, INCLUDING NEW HEADS, because gasket leak wasn't found, so must be a cracked head, lol, all on the say so of a test that is known to not be 100% accurate

Mechanics love the chemical test(block test) they can even fake a positive(blown gasket) result, if it doesn't do it on it's own, money in the bank, they charge for the "technically advanced chemical reaction test" , then charge for the rebuild.

 

lol ron i know where ya are coming from on the glove test! thats why this is driving me nuts!!!!!! mine is a 95 so no tty bolts. finally figured it out after i had already ordered the parts to rebuild top end.
i have done the glove test many times today and the only thing it dose is flop around in the breeze! lol.
as it stands right now the coolant system consists of radiator and engine, trans cooler is bypassed and heater core is bypassed. so it is either rad (brand new just installed), hoses or engine loosing coolant and sucking air but where oh where is my coolant going and where oh where is this air coming from!

 

Passed the glove test, very good, so you are golden, just need to crank it one time, laws of physics are a pain in the ***, but can be useful now and then

Rent a radiator pressure tester, pump up COLD engine to 25psi, and watch for it to leak pressure, much easier to find a leak on a cold engine

If no leak then you have a bad impeller on water pump or a blockage in cooling passages
Assuming the water pump by-pass didn't solve the problem

I did have a new water pump that had a loose impeller, this was years ago, real pain in the but to track that down, now-a-days new parts are ALWAYS suspect, back then New meant tested.
But sure enough impeller was press fit and I guess they had the shaft out of spec or the impeller's hole out of spec, but it would slow down, loose grip on the shaft, then grip again

Finally broke down and went to a psychic, she said my psychic energy flow was to variable, not in sync with my body energy, I took it to mean faulty water pump, she was right

Actually took me a few weeks F*ing around before I put another water pump on, problem gone, I then checked impeller and it did move on the shaft


Yes, 3.0l Vulcan 1986 to 1998 used regular head bolts, 1999 and up were TTY
Any time you see final tightening of a bolt as "turn 90deg" or similar then it will be TTY
If it has a "torque to 70ft/lb", or similar, as final then it is a regular head bolt

Any head bolt can stretch when tightened, so can fail if reinstalled, problem with TTY bolts is that they won't usually break right away, lol, where a regular head bolt will break if it has been stretch too far before.
TTY bolt might last quite a few heat up(metal expands) and cool downs before it finally breaks

 

I thought Kobin had a 99, butt upon checking, that is A-Wolf.

It will be interesting to see if any leaks show up with the pressure test.

Lets assume Ron that there are no leaks found, even with a blockage and/or a bad pump, where is the coolant going ?

If the coolant is expanding into the overflow tank because of over heating, is it safe to assume that Kobin is losing coolant (the water part in the 50/50 mix) through evaporation ?
I suppose that could happen if the coolant in the overflow tank is hot enough ???

 

im thinking that the rad cap isnt letting it suck coolant back in but when i get the test kit i will test that as well and just checked the weather, dosnt look like ill get much done today because of the rain but im gona do what i can. and that might explain the tiny bubbles, if the impellar on the water pump is bad and causing cavitation

 

wow they want 300 dollars to rent a pressure kit! ok whats the cheap way to pressure test it?

 

My local tool rental charges $25 for the day
Kit comes with several "caps" for different cooling systems and a hand pump with a gauge on it.

They do need credit card and will charge $200 for the kit if not returned

But yes there is another way, you can use the overflow hose port on rad cap opening to add pressure to the system.
The smaller return valve in the rad cap will allow pressure to be pushed IN to the rad

It is best to have a gauge and pump but just a pump will do

Make sure rad is topped up
Put cap on tight
Put pump hose on overflow port and pump up the system

Air will only travel IN to system thru the smaller valve, it will hold that pressure IN
If pressure reaches Rad Cap rating, 14-16psi then larger valve will release some pressure out the overflow port, so you can't put in more pressure than the cap rating

Then wait and watch for any coolant dripping out

If you pump it up to cap rating, i.e. larger valve releases pressure, then you can wait a few minutes and pump it again, should instantly release that added pressure if there is no leak, if you can pump more pressure in then pressure is being lost somewhere

 

while i was at the parts store i got a new rad cap for gp and i was looking at the old one and it wouldnt be to hard to pull the guts and make my own

 

You would have to seal the overflow hose port as well if you make your own
The rad cap itself just seals at the top of opening, which would leave overflow port open

Caps that come with a tester kit seal the bottom like a rad caps larger valve seal does, but no spring so you can pump up to higher pressure

 

ok a update, new rad is in with all new hoses and rad cap. still have thermostat out. drove 175 miles and all was great, (engine temp was 150ish and trans temp was 120-130 depending on hills) until i had ten miles to go on the interstate, then all hell broke loose.
engine temp shoots to 190ish and trans shoots to 185! this was last weekend, so this weekend i replaced the water pump, and glad i did, when i got it off both weep holes showed signs of leaking bad, but not so bad that it would leave a puddle under the truck! not much left to replace to find this issue. so my next move it looks like is pulling the pass side head again and removing the copper spay gasket and head gasket to replace with a new gasket with out the spray gasket! i know the trans needs rebuilt and im trying to find a good shop to do it but this engine thing is driving me nuts!

what are your alls thoughts?

 

So is it still over heating with the new pump ?
It past the glove test earlier, so I don't think replacing the head gaskets will do anything.

Was the impeller on the old pump easy to turn and sort of loose when compared to the new pump ?
If it was it would indicate that the pump may have been the problem.

Did you ever do a pressure test, this should be done before the major job of replacing the head gaskets _ I'm pretty sure that's not the issue anyway.

 

yes it is still running hot

no the impeller was tight on the shaft and looked brand new, the shaft was looser than brand new but not loose enough to warent replacement, the weep holes showed signs of leaking so it got replaced

no on the pressure test, next weekend when i go home and can let them hold $300 for a day! lol

 

Glove test is pretty definitive even for small leaks so I agree with jeff, no reason to pull a head yet

You need to have a thermostat in place, 192-195degF model


If I haven't said it in this thread I will now
A working thermostat can NEVER EVER cause overheating, never ever

Running without a restricter plate in place of the thermostat can cause overheating, so you can gut a thermostat and put it in, but don't run without a thermostat plate.
What happens is that too much coolant flows to radiator which lowers flow thru the engine.

Say you have a sprinkler hose, a hose with a bunch of small holes in it, when you turn on the water pressure all the small holes have good flow, even at the end of the hose.
Now what happens if you make one of the holes, close to the water pressure(water pump), larger.................
Yes, all the smaller holes down the line get LESS flow

So put a thermostat in to balance the flow

 

ok another update.
defenant proof that it is the pass side head gasket, friday morning was a chilly 50 degrees, drove a half mile then stopped and got out to drop off garbage, truck was blowing steam out the exhaust at idle.( i stuck my face in it to smell and my face was damp)

got home after 550 mile drive, let it cool down and checked all plugs again.
drivers bank was a pretty light tan across all plugs!
pass bank no color at all on any plug, they looked brand new, never used! ( aka steam cleaned) im ordering fell pro gaskets again.
and next weekend looks like im tearing it down again. wow im getting good at this upper end rebuild! lol

 

Sorry to hear about your problems.
Remember to replace your head bolts and lower intake manifold gaskets.

I should also mention to lubricate all threads with a bit of grease when torqueing down any bolts, the hole and the bolt.

Have both heads pressure tested, checked for cracks and make sure that the surfaces are true.

I remember the first time around it was popping back and you used that spray copper gasket stuff to fix things (temporary fix).

If that copper stuff fixed the problem the first time, then there's something not right with the mating surfaces.

You shouldn't need to use any sealant with a head gasket job.

If you have an air compressor use it to make sure the mating surfaces are clean, even a hair (4 thou) or a tiny spec of dirt can cause gasket failure.

 

oh i hear ya jeff!
im not touching the drivers bank(new head), just the pass bank!
the head bolts are new and NOT tty so i will reuse them.
depending on what i find i might be reordering gaskets AND a new head!
yes i will chase the threads again.
and for ron, i got a 162 degree thermostat installed even though i know how this truck runs! lol
so another 300 mile trip tomorrow, ill let ya know how it dose! lol probably still hot

 

Take lots of water with you, head gasket problems tend to "snow ball".

What year is you truck again ?

If the threads in the block are flush, then you need standard head bolts.
TTY bolts _ Ford recessed the threads in the block.
Happened around 1999 when TTY bolts were used.

When all this **** keeps happening, if it were me, I would give both banks a good going over, but to each his own.

I had a drafting teacher in high school that said "why is there always time to do it over again, but never any time to do it right the first time" ?

I just don't want to see the other bank fail, for what ever reason and see another post from you.

Did you use the copper gasket stuff on the drivers side ?
If you did, I would replace that gasket too.

 

i feel the same jeff!
my "lil mistress" is a '95 so no tty head bolts, and they are new any way when i replaced the drivers side head.
no i did not use the copper spray on the drivers side when i replaced it. i am thinking about replacing the pass head just because of this issue and the miles i put on my girl! low miles during the week but holy cow on the weekend! and she dont use much water/coolant, maybe a quart every two weeks, thats why this is driving me nuts! check and check again to figure it out. and since im in Florida and it is always humid, its hard to get her to act up aka to blow steam via the exaust. i just got lucky on a may day that it was cold!

 

Then replacing the passengers head should do the trick then.
Obviously it's a very small leak, since the glove test didn't show anything.
The clean spark plugs tell all though.

 

i know, but im willing to say the spray gasket " gave up the ghost" + high mileage! i should of never messed with the pass side head! the original problem was the drivers side (because of rusted spark plug and broke bolts)!

 

Yeah, the original problem was the rusty spark plug and broken bolts, but then a new problem reared its ugly head.

Rebuilt and Running Kind of Rough _ the popping on #2.

It was never determined what was causing the popping.
After going through the thread, what fixed it was spraying the head gasket with the copper spray gasket.
When the spray gasket fixed the popping sound _ maybe the new head gasket was defective _ a long shot, but I suppose it's possible, especially for a Felpro gasket.
Here's the link, but I'm sure you haven't forgotten.

https://www.ranger-forums.com/2-9l-3...2/#post2110470

 

oh i remember jeff, i think that was a faulty lower intake gasket,( cheap ones and now i only use fel pro, lesson learned!)

edit: i should know better to change more than one thing at the same time!

 

When it's all done I want nothing but good news !

Should be good to go after this.

And a question for Ron, how often does one have to re-torque these head bolts ?

After one drive cycle I guess _ after fully warming up and cooling down ?