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2.9L & 3.0L V6 Tech General discussion of 2.9L and 3.0L V6 Ford Ranger engines.

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  #1  
Old 04-26-2016
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will not start

I have 45 psi fuel I have fire and have check timing and change the computer only way the truck will run is take a computer out of a 92 ranger with a 2.3
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Old 04-26-2016
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Welcome to the site

You have a 1988 Ranger with 2.9l V6

With key on you have 12volts at the coil, and while cranking the engine you have at least 9.5volts at the coil.
Computer isn't need for spark, just FYI.
On your year TFI module on side of distributor runs the spark, for starting at least.

After cranking the engine you have pulled out a few spark plugs and they are WET with fuel.
Computer does run the fuel injectors.

And if you put another computer in engine starts...........then something is wrong, with your testing.
Computer only controls fuel injectors, so if spark plugs were WET then computer is working.
If they were not wet then computer could be your problem.

2.3l Speed Density computer can't run a 2.9l engine, start it yes, but not run it.

There are 3 wires from TFI module to the computer.
The PIP wire tells the computer when to start opening the fuel injectors, if computer doesn't get PIP signal then it won't open fuel injectors.

TFI wiring here: Ford EEC-IV/TFI-IV Electronic Engine Control Troubleshooting

But if other computer gets engine to start then PIP wire should be OK.
You will need to find a 2.9l computer
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Old 04-26-2016
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I have bought a new computer and the ruck still want run unless the new computer I have bought is bad
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Old 04-26-2016
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Then you have not tested system correctly.

Spray some gas or ether(Quick start) into the intake, then try to start.

If it starts and dies then Fuel is the problem.

If it doesn't start then Spark is the problem.


When did the engine not start?

Just one day it didn't start?

Or after some work was done on the engine/truck it didn't start?
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Old 04-26-2016
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[QUOTE=RonD;2104449]Then you have not tested system correctly.

Spray some gas or ether(Quick start) into the intake, then try to start.

If it starts and dies then Fuel is the problem.

If it doesn't start then Spark is the problem.


When did the engine not start?

Just one day it didn't start?

Or after some work was done on the engine/truck it didn't start?[/QUOTES




I had to run a new brake line to the rear brakes I started the truck after and it ran fine for about 15 minutes then died I. The yard
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Old 04-27-2016
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I had to do the same on my '94, rear brake line rusted out in the frame.

Could be the Fuel pump wiring that is in the same frame rail as brake line.

Do spray some gas/ether into the intake, and see if it starts, that would confirm problem is fuel related.
If not then spark is the issue.

I think the '88's still had the two fuel pumps, one in the frame rail under drivers seat and one in the fuel tank.

They are powered by the same wire, Ford just spliced in a wire for the pump in the frame, that splice could fail.

When you turn on the key, both fuel pumps should come on for 2 seconds, they are not quiet you can hear them.
Turn key on and off a few times and may sure both pumps are coming on, you may need a helper to turn the key on and off while you feel the Frame Pump and bottom of gas tank to make sure both pumps are running.
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Old 04-27-2016
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[QUOTE=RonD;2104467]I had to do the same on my '94, rear brake line rusted out in the frame.

Could be the Fuel pump wiring that is in the same frame rail as brake line.

Do spray some gas/ether into the intake, and see if it starts, that would confirm problem is fuel related.
If not then spark is the issue.

I think the '88's still had the two fuel pumps, one in the frame rail under drivers seat and one in the fuel tank.

They are powered by the same wire, Ford just spliced in a wire for the pump in the frame, that splice could fail.

When you turn on the key, both fuel pumps should come on for 2 seconds, they are not quiet you can hear them.
Turn key on and off a few times and may sure both pumps are coming on, you may need a helper to turn the key on and off while you feel the Frame Pump and bottom of gas tank to make sure both pumps are running.[/QUOTES



Ok I will try that to day when I get home I know the one fuel pump that is on the rail works I can here it sitting in the seat not sure about the tank thanks for the help so far
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Old 04-27-2016
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[[email protected];2104486][QUOTE=RonD;2104467]I had to do the same on my '94, rear brake line rusted out in the frame.

Could be the Fuel pump wiring that is in the same frame rail as brake line.

Do spray some gas/ether into the intake, and see if it starts, that would confirm problem is fuel related.
If not then spark is the issue.

I think the '88's still had the two fuel pumps, one in the frame rail under drivers seat and one in the fuel tank.

They are powered by the same wire, Ford just spliced in a wire for the pump in the frame, that splice could fail.

When you turn on the key, both fuel pumps should come on for 2 seconds, they are not quiet you can hear them.
Turn key on and off a few times and may sure both pumps are coming on, you may need a helper to turn the key on and off while you feel the Frame Pump and bottom of gas tank to make sure both pumps are running.[/QUOTES



Ok I will try that to day when I get home I know the one fuel pump that is on the rail works I can here it sitting in the seat not sure about the tank thanks for the help so far[/QUOT



Ok both fuel pumps are working I check the coil with key on both red and green wire have 12volts while turning the motor over the red wire will drop to 10.5 and the green wire will drop all the way to 7.5 to almost 6
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Old 04-27-2016
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Put gas into the intake, manually
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Old 04-28-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonD View Post
Put gas into the intake, manually
We have had tried it before it will not hit
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Old 04-28-2016
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Then you have no spark, or no spark at the right time.
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  #12  
Old 04-28-2016
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Originally Posted by RonD View Post
Then you have no spark, or no spark at the right time.




The timing is right I have double check that the only thing that has not be change on the fire side is the pick up unless the lower voltage going to the coil is the problem
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Old 04-28-2016
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If you add fuel manually to the intake, and engine doesn't start then only 2 things can be wrong.
1. Compression, ALL cylinders have lower than 90psi compression, has to be all or at least 1 would fire and you would hear that.

2. no spark at the end of compression stroke, or no spark at all

Engines are simple in that regard, compression, spark and fuel is all that is needed


How did you check the timing?

2.9l has firing order of 1-4-2-5-3-6
That means #1 and #5 share the TDC mark on crank
So you could time the spark for #1 TDC but it is on it's exhaust stroke TDC not compression stroke.

If you pull out #1 spark plug and then manually rotate the engine until you feel compression building at #1 spark plug hole, use finger or gauge.
Then keep turning until you see TDC line and set it at 10deg BTDC, now check distributor ROTOR, it should be pointed at #1 spark plug wire on the cap.
If it is pointed at #5 then timing is reversed.


Just get an old spark plug and hook it up to any of the spark plug wires, ground the spark plug and crank engine, if TFI system and coil are working you will see a nice blue/white spark
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Old 04-28-2016
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[QUOTE=RonD;2104539]If you add fuel manually to the intake, and engine doesn't start then only 2 things can be wrong.
1. Compression, ALL cylinders have lower than 90psi compression, has to be all or at least 1 would fire and you would hear that.

2. no spark at the end of compression stroke, or no spark at all

Engines are simple in that regard, compression, spark and fuel is all that is needed


How did you check the timing?

2.9l has firing order of 1-4-2-5-3-6
That means #1 and #5 share the TDC mark on crank
So you could time the spark for #1 TDC but it is on it's exhaust stroke TDC not compression stroke.

If you pull out #1 spark plug and then manually rotate the engine until you feel compression building at #1 spark plug hole, use finger or gauge.
Then keep turning until you see TDC line and set it at 10deg BTDC, now check distributor ROTOR, it should be pointed at #1 spark plug wire on the cap.
If it is pointed at #5 then timing is reversed.


Just get an old spark plug and hook it up to any of the spark plug wires, ground the spark plug and crank engine, if TFI system and coil are working you will see a nice blue/white spark[/QUOTES



We pulled the #1 plug out with the piston all the way up with the make tc at the marker the rotor was pointing at the number one on the distributor we went around twice to make sure the two makers lined up again I have a inline spark tester by that it say I have fire put by doing it the old way with a screwdriver the fire looked more yellow
then blue
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Old 04-29-2016
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This is a 4 stroke engine, most are.

So top dead center(TDC) happens twice on one complete cycle
TDC Compression stroke
TDC Exhaust stroke

Piston being at TDC doesn't help for spark timing, 50/50 chance of it being right.

The Valves/Cam decide correct spark timing, which is why the distributor runs off the Cam.
#1 needs to be on Compression stroke TDC when distributor rotor points at #1 spark plug wire.

Without removing the valve cover for #1 and watching intake valve, the only way to tell Compression stroke TDC is by removing #1 spark plug and feeling for the compression stroke, with finger, or by using pressure gauge in the hole.

Has the distributor been removed recently?
If not then this may not be the issue but easy enough to check it and take it off the table as the problem.

If distributor rotor is firing spark plug #1 on Exhaust stroke TDC then engine can't start
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Old 04-29-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonD View Post
This is a 4 stroke engine, most are.

So top dead center(TDC) happens twice on one complete cycle
TDC Compression stroke
TDC Exhaust stroke

Piston being at TDC doesn't help for spark timing, 50/50 chance of it being right.

The Valves/Cam decide correct spark timing, which is why the distributor runs off the Cam.
#1 needs to be on Compression stroke TDC when distributor rotor points at #1 spark plug wire.

Without removing the valve cover for #1 and watching intake valve, the only way to tell Compression stroke TDC is by removing #1 spark plug and feeling for the compression stroke, with finger, or by using pressure gauge in the hole.

Has the distributor been removed recently?
If not then this may not be the issue but easy enough to check it and take it off the table as the problem.

If distributor rotor is firing spark plug #1 on Exhaust stroke TDC then engine can't start

I haven't had the distributor out I just don't understand how the truck will start with a 2.3 computer and not with the correct 2.9 computer
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Old 04-29-2016
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Only reason would be the fuel injectors are on with one computer and not on with the other.
1994 and earlier Ford computers only controlled the fuel injection, they "helped" with spark advance but not spark itself
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Old 04-30-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonD View Post
Only reason would be the fuel injectors are on with one computer and not on with the other.
1994 and earlier Ford computers only controlled the fuel injection, they "helped" with spark advance but not spark itself



Oh ok on this truck doesn't have a crank sensor so what take the place of it to make the fire and fuel go off at the same time
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Old 04-30-2016
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TFI distributor has a hall effect sensor inside, it is connected to the TFI module on the side of the distributor.
TFI module has a wire called the PIP wire(Profile Ignition Pickup), this has the pulse from the hall effect sensor inside distributor.
PIP wire runs to the computer, that's the pulse the computer uses to time the fuel injectors.


Crank position sensor wasn't needed until engine went distributorless, then they used a coil pack with EDIS module and CKP(crank position) sensor to time spark and injectors.

In 1995 Rangers got the bigger computer and EDIS module was IN the computer after that, so just coil pack and CKP sensor on the engine.
Cam position sensors(CPS or CMP) were also added, on some distributorless models, in the early '90's.
These aided in sequential fuel injection, 1994 and earlier were mostly batch fire fuel injection

Last edited by RonD; 04-30-2016 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 04-30-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonD View Post
TFI distributor has a hall effect sensor inside, it is connected to the TFI module on the side of the distributor.
TFI module has a wire called the PIP wire(Profile Ignition Pickup), this has the pulse from the hall effect sensor inside distributor.
PIP wire runs to the computer, that's the pulse the computer uses to time the fuel injectors.


Crank position sensor wasn't needed until engine went distributorless, then they used a coil pack with EDIS module and CKP(crank position) sensor to time spark and injectors.

In 1995 Rangers got the bigger computer and EDIS module was IN the computer after that, so just coil pack and CKP sensor on the engine


Ok I think that where my problem is. Is there a way to check that
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Old 04-30-2016
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Testing TFI found here: Ford EEC-IV/TFI-IV Electronic Engine Control Troubleshooting

If you want to check if PIP wire is good to the computer then look here: Ford EEC-IV

Pin 56 is the PIP signal
Pin 36 is the SPOUT
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