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4.0L OHV & SOHC V6 Tech General discussion of 4.0L OHV and SOHC V6 Ford Ranger engines.

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  #51  
Old 02-06-2009
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Nice find Rich!

I hate the way they start too, I however wont need to worry about it much longer.

I normally park in the garage, and in the mornings its not too bad but the afternoons when my truck has been sitting outside in the cold for the entire day it cranks for 4-5 seconds then starts. This problem got much worse after putting the supercharger on. Thus another reason why I do not daily drive the ranger anymore.

Sometimes here lately even in the garage it takes some time to fire up. I have found that turning the key to run and letting the fuel pump run for a second or two it fires up a bit faster.
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  #52  
Old 02-06-2009
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
RIch, there is two ways to get more fuel, increase the duration the injector is opened, and/or increase fuel pressure. If the check valve is leaking, it is taking the fuel pump more time to come up to the correct fuel pressure on a cold start.......Obviously you didn't think of a leaking fuel check valve.....
Again, if the problem was the fuel table being wrong, there would be thousands and thousands of people complaining of cold-starts!!
I dont even know where that valve exists on the ranger, I have replaced all the fuel line from the pump to the rail, i dont recall seeing a check valve.
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  #53  
Old 02-06-2009
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Double post.. opps.

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 02-06-2009 at 01:56 PM.
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  #54  
Old 02-06-2009
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I have the returnless system. Not too sure how it works on mine.

Like Bob said the way to rule it out (or anything similar) from happening is to turn the key on / off / on ect.

I must say I've been very supprised that it came from Ford this way. And.. I'm still a bit leary that they may have wanted extended cranking for a reason? Who knows. Maybe it was to help prime the oil system or something.

I will say this though. It's been a few days since my reflash / update and it's a TON better than anytime since day one. Yesterday morning was bitterly cold. It was -8F when I started it. I always turn the ignition on, let it dwell for 1 second or so, and then crank it. (just kinda a habit from years gone by dealing with old school cars I reckon) The motor cranked slower because of the cold, cranked for about 1 second and then fired right up. This morning it was 10F and it turned over for about 1/2 a sec and fired. Every other time since new these temps would have taken 4-5 seconds.

It's vastly better. My best analogy would be setting the choke on a older car vs not setting it. Keep in mind I've only changed fuel during crank. After crank everything else is ford original for cold weather and during the warm up to 150F.

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 02-06-2009 at 02:04 PM.
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  #55  
Old 02-06-2009
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Originally Posted by zabeard View Post
Nice find Rich!

I hate the way they start too, I however wont need to worry about it much longer.
The next time you change tunes.. have your tuner add a bit of fuel during crank. Worked wonders for mine.

Rich
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  #56  
Old 02-07-2009
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This whole thread has been packed with good information. I have the x-cal 2 and recently custom tuned my rig (4.0L SOHC w/ upgrades to coil wires, hotter plug range, 75 mm MAF and air filter). I have opted to run global spark w/ 1 degree advance, mixture enriched by 2 percent, hotter plug by one, range governor turned off, 5 percent firmer shift and 4.10 gearing on an 87 octane performance tune. Night and day difference between running the just the stock tune. I have tuned other cars but they were OBD-I and much easier to manipulate as far as fuel, spark etc. I am aware of the Stoichiometric ration 14.7 lbs of air cu. to 1 lb fuel cu. but to be honest I have always run a richer mixture. Do you have any suggestions, since you are the guy with the computer? Thanx
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  #57  
Old 02-08-2009
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A hotter plug huh? That is a way to make a little more power. Just gotta watch the knock sensor. Which you can do with your x-cal and live link on a laptop. Oh.. and the knock sensor turns off at 4000 rpms. So above that and you gotta use your ear to listen for detonation.

Have you had the MAF transfer function corrected for the 75mm MAF? I'm not even sure what the stock MAF rating is.

As far as stoich goes. It depends on the fuel. Out on the island I'm assuming you don't use "winter gas"? Does the fuel have 10% ethanol? Both of those lower stoich. And.. back to the MAF transfer function, has this been accounted for by your tuner?

Your "mass air flow transfer function" is STEP NUMBER ONE in tuning a modern engine.

At WOT I like to lean towards conservatism. Last year at the track (off nitrous) I tried differing A/F ratios as measured with a innovated wideband. I ran with it leaned out to 13.5 and stepped it down to the high 11s.
Up over 13.1-ish I saw knock sensor activity but not audible detonation. And below 12.2-ish I started to loose a little trap speed. I have mine tuned for 12.7 using a plug that tends to burn the fuel more completely than the factory ford units or NGK TR6's. A 12.7 is a little fat for best power, but it'll help to prevent detonation up over 4000rpms (where the knock sensor turns off) and my trap speeds are within .25-.5 mph of running it any leaner.

So.. the a/f your running really is not a one size fits all rule of thumb. A MAF that's not been accounted for, hotter plugs, and a particular fuel combo all require different ratios.

Here is a quick way you can check yourself. Using a laptop, fire up live link and then data log a front 02 sensor during a WOT run up through 1st and 2nd gear. I'd want to see it read 0.82 or higher. If it's getting down into the .7x or lower.. your too lean.
(you can also do this with a scanguage)
With my tune set for 12.7 and summer gas my 02s read .83 to .85

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 02-08-2009 at 05:34 AM.
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  #58  
Old 02-08-2009
Kikaida 01
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Thanks Rich, and the larger MAF was accounted for when I purchased the X-Cal II Unit. No knock/detonation to report yet and I do try to listen for it (and recently pulled the plugs to investigate something else and found them in good shape). So far so good. What I have noticed though are the significant differences between OBD-I and OBD-II; night and day.
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  #59  
Old 02-08-2009
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Excellent. Hook up that live link and see what your 02 is reading at WOT.

At part throttle the 02 reading will swing from high to low and back again. That's just how they work to find stoich (narrow band). But at WOT they will read a steady number.
Using your x-cal to adjust fuel.. get that 02 reading into the low 80s and you'll make good power as well as keep it safe. If you ever see it dip into the low 70s (or lower).. back off.

Rich
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  #60  
Old 02-08-2009
Kikaida 01
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Rich, thanks again. Any chance of finding away to either manipulate the PCU/ECM system to run in open loop at WOT. I was able to do this with OBD-I, but am not sure how to approach this with a system that has three 02 sensors. Also which 02 sensor is going to measure the mixture at WOT? Is it the one closest to CAT or is it the one on the down pipe? Thanks.

BTW, I may bug ya about setting up the laptop computer program and parameters. I'm use to using guages, OHM resistance/volt meter, my ears, nose and engine knowledge to tune. Works well w/ early OBD-I; most likely won't work with OBD-II because of the restrictiveness. Thanks

Last edited by Kikaida 01; 02-08-2009 at 07:17 PM.
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  #61  
Old 02-08-2009
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Hey Rich, I want to check on my a/f ratio as well. I would just feel better to know I'm not running too lean. I know which PIDs to choose with Live link, but I was wondering which of the o2s I need to look at as far as the ScanGauge is conserned. I am not sure which is which.

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I am assuming Sensor 1 on Bank 1 & 2.
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  #62  
Old 02-08-2009
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Rich,

If I got a tuner with Rogue tunes for my 3.0 would it be possible for you to edit them? Your 87 Octane tune sounds like just what I'm looking for plus I like how you change the transmission shift points, firmness, etc.. that's my biggest complaint about my truck.

Thank you.
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  #63  
Old 02-09-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0RangerEdge2 View Post
Rich,

If I got a tuner with Rogue tunes for my 3.0 would it be possible for you to edit them? Your 87 Octane tune sounds like just what I'm looking for plus I like how you change the transmission shift points, firmness, etc.. that's my biggest complaint about my truck.

Thank you.
I'm afraid SCT is WAAAY ahead of us on that one. My license is locked to my PCM. And even if there was a legal way.. Freds tunes are locked so that only he can edit them.

My cost to buy a license to become a tuner is $6000 And at that I'm not comfortable tuning for a vehicle thats NOT within my ability to drive for myself.
My cars I accept full responsibility for. But to tune someone elses ride would increase my level of stress. Stress I don't need at this time in my life.
Besides.. I'm beyond **** about details and would never make a profit if charging the going rates. Not kidding.. I'd make less than a dollar per hour if ihad been paid to tune like i've done on my truck.

I'll say this though. If any of you guys step up to a Pro Racer package I'd gladly share my settings and thoughts / experiences. Your looking at $350+ the cost of a X-cal though. It's not cheap.

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 02-09-2009 at 10:08 AM.
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  #64  
Old 02-09-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaida 01 View Post
Rich, thanks again. Any chance of finding away to either manipulate the PCU/ECM system to run in open loop at WOT.
Oh your a sharp fella! Yes. There are "switches" in the tune where you can have it run OL at WOT.
In their help section they specifically talk about some trucks that operate this way. So yes it's possible for your tuner to make those changes.

Do keep in mind that the knock sensor shuts off at 4000rpms.
I changed that to 6000 for my 87tune and gave it a whirl. It wound up pulling 5-6deg of timing though. And it wasn't really close to knock either. I think that our KS is seeing "dirty signals" upwards in RPMs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaida 01 View Post
I was able to do this with OBD-I, but am not sure how to approach this with a system that has three 02 sensors. Also which 02 sensor is going to measure the mixture at WOT? Is it the one closest to CAT or is it the one on the down pipe? Thanks.
The two that are pre-cat are what the PCM is using for A/F. The one (or two in some rangers) thats downstream of the cat is there only to determine if the cat is bad or not. I do think it can effect long term fuel though.
Up until a few weeks ago I had the rears turned off because Lasoto gave me the base tunes that way. Lately I turned them back on to see how it'll effect things. So far so good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaida 01 View Post
BTW, I may bug ya about setting up the laptop computer program and parameters. I'm use to using guages, OHM resistance/volt meter, my ears, nose and engine knowledge to tune. Works well w/ early OBD-I; most likely won't work with OBD-II because of the restrictiveness. Thanks
If you have a x-cal and a laptop all you need to do is buy the cable that goes from the laptop to the x-cal. (see your tuner or the SCT web site for that) Then load "live link" onto the laptop. Then you can have 100 times the "guages" you used to have.

For example. I've got my 50% and above timing-vs-load jacked close to MBT. (known spark knock limit from ford) So tonight on the way home, at 50% throttle and above I'm using the laptop to real time watch knock sensor activity. (87 tune in the truck right now)
Tonight I'll also be watching how much timing the PCM will be adding at cruising speeds in order to maximize mpg. If I see its not hitting the KS within it's programmed limits... then I'll add 3deg and try again. (trying to max MPG on my 87 tune)

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 02-09-2009 at 10:12 AM.
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  #65  
Old 02-09-2009
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Originally Posted by elementsenjoi View Post
I am assuming Sensor 1 on Bank 1 & 2.
I think so. I'll check what mines set on tonight.

Rich
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  #66  
Old 02-09-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Oh your a sharp fella! Yes. There are "switches" in the tune where you can have it run OL at WOT.

The PCM normally runs in "open loop" @ WOT.
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  #67  
Old 02-09-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
I think so. I'll check what mines set on tonight.

Rich
Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
The PCM normally runs in "open loop" @ WOT.
That's what I always thought.
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  #68  
Old 02-09-2009
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Opps I got them backwards. Bobs right. OL is when the PCM ignores many other inputs. CL is when it looks at all inputs.

The PCM is in OL for 20-30 seconds after startup (fords tune) and at WOT. All other times it's in CL.

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 02-09-2009 at 11:05 AM.
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  #69  
Old 02-09-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Opps I got them backwards. Bobs right. OP is when the PCM ignores many other inputs. Closed loop is when it looks at all inputs.

The PCM is in OL for 20-30 seconds after startup (fords tune) and at WOT. All other times it's in CL.

The biggest diference between "OPEN LOOP" and "CLOSED LOOP" is looking at the feedback from the O2 sensors in "CLOSED LOOP" while switching from rich to lean and back to rich.....The signal from the O2 sensors is ignored in "OPEN LOOP".
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  #70  
Old 02-09-2009
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Thanks for saying the same thing I did.
Bob, not everything in life is a nail. Put down the hammer
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  #71  
Old 02-09-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Thanks for saying the same thing I did.
Bob, not everything in life is a nail. Put down the hammer
Rich, "ignores many other inputs" IS NOT the same thing as "O2 sensors"
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  #72  
Old 02-09-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
I'm afraid SCT is WAAAY ahead of us on that one. My license is locked to my PCM. And even if there was a legal way.. Freds tunes are locked so that only he can edit them.

My cost to buy a license to become a tuner is $6000 And at that I'm not comfortable tuning for a vehicle thats NOT within my ability to drive for myself.
My cars I accept full responsibility for. But to tune someone elses ride would increase my level of stress. Stress I don't need at this time in my life.
Besides.. I'm beyond **** about details and would never make a profit if charging the going rates. Not kidding.. I'd make less than a dollar per hour if ihad been paid to tune like i've done on my truck.

I'll say this though. If any of you guys step up to a Pro Racer package I'd gladly share my settings and thoughts / experiences. Your looking at $350+ the cost of a X-cal though. It's not cheap.

Rich
Well I didn't know if you could tune others or not. Maybe I can just ask Fred to do a little work on the transmission side of the tune.

I understand not wanting to modify another person's vehicle. Thanks again!
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  #73  
Old 02-09-2009
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Originally Posted by elementsenjoi View Post
I am assuming Sensor 1 on Bank 1 & 2.
Chris, I'm scanning 616AF10114

Rich
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  #74  
Old 02-09-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Chris, I'm scanning 616AF10114

Rich
So this is reading your air/fuel ratio?? What should it normally read?
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  #75  
Old 02-09-2009
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Rich, "ignores many other inputs" IS NOT the same thing as "O2 sensors"
Bob you have no point and your not adding useful info to this otherwise informative thread. Please.. have some respect.

When in open loop and closed loop one parameter vs another doesn't carry more weight. MAF, TPS, ECT, IAT, load, 02s, reference charts, ect.. are all inputs that go into the math that the PCM uses to command timing, fuel, the IAC, and tranny.
For example:If you were to disconnect the MAF or it were giving readings out of whack.. there is a chart for the PCM to reference. Same goes for the 02s, VSS, ect.
One does not carry more weight than another.
There are a few exceptions. Crank position sensor, cam sensor, ect must be in place and working properly. There is no way to mathmaticaly substitue for those.

The thing that really complicates this is that there are TONS of limiters. So.. it simply depends on what data point your talking about.
For example:
The knock sensor. The knock sensor doesn't work below 35% load. And it doesn't work above 4000rpms. Well.. those two things are not the same parameter and can't be measured by one thing like speed, throttle position, gear, ect.. It's very complicated and very seldom is there a *blanket statement* that is all inclusive.

In open loop the PCM uses less inputs. In closed loop it uses all of them...... or some. Just depends on the point in question and what limiters are acting on it.

Regards,
Rich
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