Intermittent Starting
#1
Intermittent Starting
I have a 1994 Ranger 4.0L with 240,000 miles. Have recently begun having a problem with it failing to start (cranks strong, just won't start):
If driven for 30 minutes or more and then turned off for 30 minutes-1 hr it will not restart until engine has cooled for at least 2-3 hrs (will usually restart if cranked immediately after shutoff).
Have replaced:
fuel pump & fuel pump relay, eec relay, plugs/wires, coolant temp sensor, ignition control module
Cleaned:
maf sensor, battery posts
Fuel pressure tested out as being good.
A friend had an OBDI system to pull codes. Showed a code for "engine oil level sensor out of range".
Question is: Can this sensor being bad cause an intermittent start situation since none of the "obvious" causes fixed the problem?
If driven for 30 minutes or more and then turned off for 30 minutes-1 hr it will not restart until engine has cooled for at least 2-3 hrs (will usually restart if cranked immediately after shutoff).
Have replaced:
fuel pump & fuel pump relay, eec relay, plugs/wires, coolant temp sensor, ignition control module
Cleaned:
maf sensor, battery posts
Fuel pressure tested out as being good.
A friend had an OBDI system to pull codes. Showed a code for "engine oil level sensor out of range".
Question is: Can this sensor being bad cause an intermittent start situation since none of the "obvious" causes fixed the problem?
Last edited by ander598; 08-17-2019 at 09:27 PM.
#2
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
Welcome to the forum
No on oil level sensor, and what is that code number, exactly, you may have wrong definition?
As far as I know there are no "oil" codes
You need to do a 50/50 test when there is a No Start
Get a can of quick start, ether in a spray can
Do whatever you need to do to get a No Start, and make sure it doesn't start
You need to spray ether into the intake, or gasoline
Easiest way is to pull off PCV hose from upper intake and spray ether into that port, put hose back on intake, you don't need much, just a quick squirt
Now try to start engine
If it starts and then dies you have a fuel delivery problem
If it doesn't start then you have a spark problem
50/50, instant results
This will put you on the right track instead of guessing
No on oil level sensor, and what is that code number, exactly, you may have wrong definition?
As far as I know there are no "oil" codes
You need to do a 50/50 test when there is a No Start
Get a can of quick start, ether in a spray can
Do whatever you need to do to get a No Start, and make sure it doesn't start
You need to spray ether into the intake, or gasoline
Easiest way is to pull off PCV hose from upper intake and spray ether into that port, put hose back on intake, you don't need much, just a quick squirt
Now try to start engine
If it starts and then dies you have a fuel delivery problem
If it doesn't start then you have a spark problem
50/50, instant results
This will put you on the right track instead of guessing
Last edited by RonD; 08-17-2019 at 11:34 PM.
#3
I tested the fuel pressure on the last "no start" and it showed good pressure so I am getting fuel.
Ran OBD1 on both the electrical and engine itself. Electrical did not show any problems. Engine test just said "engine oil temp sensor out of range" did not have a number with it. Everything else passed without a problem.
Will definitely try your suggestion! Thank you!
Ran OBD1 on both the electrical and engine itself. Electrical did not show any problems. Engine test just said "engine oil temp sensor out of range" did not have a number with it. Everything else passed without a problem.
Will definitely try your suggestion! Thank you!
Last edited by ander598; 08-19-2019 at 05:14 AM.
#4
On the next no start you still need to do RonD's 50/50 test.
#5
Update:
Was able to try starter fluid.
Engine "acted up" as usual (crank but no start). Sprayed starter fluid into intake and it immediately started and kept running. Turned engine off and tried to start again w/o starter fluid--- started immediately. Continued turning engine off and on 5-6 times. Started up immediately every time.
Is there a component (other than the computer) that tells the fuel injectors when to fire?
I am prepared to have to replace computer but want to eliminate any other possible factors.
Was able to try starter fluid.
Engine "acted up" as usual (crank but no start). Sprayed starter fluid into intake and it immediately started and kept running. Turned engine off and tried to start again w/o starter fluid--- started immediately. Continued turning engine off and on 5-6 times. Started up immediately every time.
Is there a component (other than the computer) that tells the fuel injectors when to fire?
I am prepared to have to replace computer but want to eliminate any other possible factors.
Last edited by ander598; 08-23-2019 at 06:52 PM.
#6
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
On 1994 4.0l Ranger you have the EDIS-6 module spark system
It has 3 parts
Crank sensor
Coil pack
EDIS-6 module
Whole system seen here: http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...DIS-6Large.jpg
Crank sensor starts to generate its own AC voltage when crank starts to turn
It sends this to EDIS-6 module, this AC Voltage has a timing pulse
The EDIS-6 starts firing coil pack using the timing pulse fron crank sensor
EDIS-6 also sends that timing pulse to the Computer so it "knows" driver wants to start engine and to time the injectors, signal is called the PIP
There is no connection between starter motor system and computer or spark system, so the ONLY WAY EDIS-6 or computer knows to start spark and fuel is by the crank sensors pulse
This is actually the ONLY sensor that can cause a no start if it fails, but it never fails, lol, and in this case its not failing because you had Spark or it would not have started with 50/50 test
It is possible the EDIS-6 is not sending the timing pulse(PIP) to computer or that wire is bad, but there is also a 2nd wire, the IDM, its the "tach" wire which also goes to computer, so there would be a CEL and code if either of these wires/signals were bad
Are you SURE there is fuel pressure when No start happens, as soon as RPMs hit 400 fuel pump gets full time power, so if it started with 50/50 and kept running it could have had no fuel pressure for the no start.
Its far more likely to get an intermittent fuel pump than PIP or IDM signal, it wouldn't keep running it that was the case
It has 3 parts
Crank sensor
Coil pack
EDIS-6 module
Whole system seen here: http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...DIS-6Large.jpg
Crank sensor starts to generate its own AC voltage when crank starts to turn
It sends this to EDIS-6 module, this AC Voltage has a timing pulse
The EDIS-6 starts firing coil pack using the timing pulse fron crank sensor
EDIS-6 also sends that timing pulse to the Computer so it "knows" driver wants to start engine and to time the injectors, signal is called the PIP
There is no connection between starter motor system and computer or spark system, so the ONLY WAY EDIS-6 or computer knows to start spark and fuel is by the crank sensors pulse
This is actually the ONLY sensor that can cause a no start if it fails, but it never fails, lol, and in this case its not failing because you had Spark or it would not have started with 50/50 test
It is possible the EDIS-6 is not sending the timing pulse(PIP) to computer or that wire is bad, but there is also a 2nd wire, the IDM, its the "tach" wire which also goes to computer, so there would be a CEL and code if either of these wires/signals were bad
Are you SURE there is fuel pressure when No start happens, as soon as RPMs hit 400 fuel pump gets full time power, so if it started with 50/50 and kept running it could have had no fuel pressure for the no start.
Its far more likely to get an intermittent fuel pump than PIP or IDM signal, it wouldn't keep running it that was the case
#7
#8
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
See if there was a code set in memory
That might tell you what was missing
The EDIS-6 module is on front side of Rad support drivers side, have to look up under the bumper to see it, maybe connector got some water intrusion???
And check the crank sensors tone wheel, the thing that looks like a gear, long shot but if it has mud caked on it, it can cause sensor reading issues
Grasping at straws here, lol.
That might tell you what was missing
The EDIS-6 module is on front side of Rad support drivers side, have to look up under the bumper to see it, maybe connector got some water intrusion???
And check the crank sensors tone wheel, the thing that looks like a gear, long shot but if it has mud caked on it, it can cause sensor reading issues
Grasping at straws here, lol.
#9
#10
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
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