is this legal? probably not - Page 4 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


General Ford Ranger Discussion General discussion of the Ford Ranger that does not fit in any other sub-forum.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #76  
Old 03-11-2010
01_ranger_4x4's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Muskegon, Michigan
Posts: 3,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by korey89 View Post
^^ WIN!!
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 03-11-2010
meathead's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by --weezl-- View Post
oh, i thought you were laughing at my cardboard door tracing idea...



look, reject... you have been on this site how long? and already you have been in how many arguments? back off and shut the hell up, i'm sure i'm not the only one on here who is tired of listening to this diarrhea that's coming out of your mouth... you are NOT going to find a mig welder to rent for anywhere near the cost that he could find a mig to rent that will do what he needs to do... i've said it once, i'll say it again... i'm not going to sit here and argue with some little e-thug who thinks he's hot ****. shut the hell up!

I'm the e-thug? You're the one who has to resort to flinging insults around. If this argument were taking place in person you'd be sitting quietly in a corner trying not to draw attention to yourself.

Just the two arguments as far as I remember chief - both on this thread. You really want to get into it - I have a feeling the other guy involved in this conversation has actually at least done some welding - you don't seem to know anything. You claim to have done "tonnes of fabricating", and you can't even remember what brand of welder you used for all this work. You're completely full of it man - you played with a welder in your high school auto shop, and now you want to jump on line and spout advice like you're an expert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by --weezl-- View Post
i've made tonnes of structural items using a 120 mig, i think the one i used was a miller...
Did it say Miller on it? I mean while you were cranking out these "tonnes of structural items", you must have actually looked at the welder at some point? Surely you had to order some consumables like wire and contact tips...I mean fabricating "tonnes of structural items" will eat through some consumables...when you ordered them didn't you have to look at your welder and gun and make sure you got the right stuff? Any chance you exaggerate your welding prowess just a little?


I'm trying to have a legit conversation about why this guy would choose a MIG when for the same price (call your local equip rental guy, portable TIG and 120 MIG rent at the same price or very close) and a little more time he could get better quality welds and learn a much more versitile skill. Is there even any argument he'd get that out of a TIG vs. a 1 phase MIG?

...And J-B will hold but it needs to be combined with highly advanced duct taping techniques and flat black rustoleum.

Last edited by meathead; 03-11-2010 at 01:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 03-11-2010
wellcom2knoxvile's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Corvallis, OR/Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by --weezl-- View Post
look, reject... you have been on this site how long? and already you have been in how many arguments? back off and shut the hell up, i
WEEZL--- why do you always call ppl out on how long they have been on this site? your a new member yourself!!! just because you have 100000 useless posts doesnt mean you know anything and from what i have read from your comments, you really dont know what your talking about (refer to your comments in my build thread)...

MEATHEAD has proposed valid arguments and nobody has answered his quesitions, so maybe you (weezl) need to back off and read a freakin book!!

to answer MEATHEAD, i totally agree that TIG is superior to MIG, but the reason ppl MIG instead of TIG is that it is more common or that they lack the skill of MIG welding..
i personally can throw down some metal with a big MIG (miller 210) and i trust the welds, yes i would love to know how to TIG but i honestly do not know how too! so i think Matt is arguing for his abilities due to the resources he has. YES we all want to be able to TIG weld but some of us can weld fine with a MIG and trusts our work to hold up under abuse!!
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 03-11-2010
meathead's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 102
I hear you Carl – that makes sense. Mentioning the Miller 210 got me thinking…a buddy of mine has that machine at his place in VT, and I welded up a deer stand frame that we use all the time with it… guess that would qualify as relying on MIG welds. Most likely part of my bias comes from the fact that every welding instructor I’ve ever had has stressed TIG. I had an instructor back when I was about 19 who had a student weld 3/8” wall pipe on a 90* with a 120 MIG (rated for 3/8"), then put it in a vice and crack the weld to show us how poor the penetration was (it wasn’t a great machine, which probably had more to do with the weld quality than anything)…and I’ve been biased against MIG for structural welding ever since. Most of the stuff I weld is ag equpment repairs, and it is too thick for the little MIG I have anyway...maybe I'd be singing a different tune if I had a big MIG.

I guess bottom line to the OP for me is if you end up going MIG, try to get something rated for 1/8” thicker than whatever you’re welding. Practice on some scrap of the same thickness as your tubes, and make sure you are getting good penetration before you weld the doors. If you have a chance to go TIG, it still has my vote. If you can do one, you are only a little practice away from being able to do the other, and once you see how in control you are of your penetration and puddle with a TIG, you never go back IMO. MIG is fast, easy to make look pretty, and easy to use upside down…all the other advantages go to TIG IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 03-11-2010
coleary15's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 343
actually i never used an actual welder lol so weezl has the know how, ive only used oxy and it was pretty damn easy
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 03-11-2010
--weezl--'s Avatar
Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Calgary AB, Canada
Posts: 3,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead View Post
I'm the e-thug? You're the one who has to resort to flinging insults around. If this argument were taking place in person you'd be sitting quietly in a corner trying not to draw attention to yourself.

Just the two arguments as far as I remember chief - both on this thread. You really want to get into it - I have a feeling the other guy involved in this conversation has actually at least done some welding - you don't seem to know anything. You claim to have done "tonnes of fabricating", and you can't even remember what brand of welder you used for all this work. You're completely full of it man - you played with a welder in your high school auto shop, and now you want to jump on line and spout advice like you're an expert.


Did it say Miller on it? I mean while you were cranking out these "tonnes of structural items", you must have actually looked at the welder at some point? Surely you had to order some consumables like wire and contact tips...I mean fabricating "tonnes of structural items" will eat through some consumables...when you ordered them didn't you have to look at your welder and gun and make sure you got the right stuff? Any chance you exaggerate your welding prowess just a little?


I'm trying to have a legit conversation about why this guy would choose a MIG when for the same price (call your local equip rental guy, portable TIG and 120 MIG rent at the same price or very close) and a little more time he could get better quality welds and learn a much more versitile skill. Is there even any argument he'd get that out of a TIG vs. a 1 phase MIG?

...And J-B will hold but it needs to be combined with highly advanced duct taping techniques and flat black rustoleum.
because you have an inch thick skull and aren't listening to anything anyone is saying, you are saying mig is crap and tig is where to go... tigs are a lot harder to get ahold of to rent than a mig... and migs are simple to learn how to do... i would never pick up a tig, if i had no experience...

as for my experience... i never did the ordering on any of our stuff, we had stock, and if we ran out, i went to the boss and told him that we needed new wire or more argon or more sticks for the arc... very rarely would we even use our arc, the mig we had at the last shop i worked at was a 240, and it did more than enough for everything... the shop i worked at before that had some 120's and 240's i used the 120's mostly... and when i was doing it before that, it was a friend's welder... like i said, i think it was a miller, but this is going back like 5-7 years now... i haven't even been in that industry in the last 5...

the last shop i worked at was a semi truck frame repair company, so yes, i know a little about welding... but i wouldn't consider myself an expert.

as far as me sitting in a corner while everyone else argues... come on up to calgary and have a discussion with me... i am more than willing to show you i'm the same in person as i am online

Quote:
Originally Posted by wellcom2knoxvile View Post
WEEZL--- why do you always call ppl out on how long they have been on this site? your a new member yourself!!! just because you have 100000 useless posts doesnt mean you know anything and from what i have read from your comments, you really dont know what your talking about (refer to your comments in my build thread)...
i don't think i ALWAYS refer to that... i will admit i do say it more than is necissary... but the reason i'm saying it here is because meathead has been on this site for what literally a week? and has already been in 2 arguements, caused by a thick skull... if i'm wrong i will admit it... but i will stand my ground if i'm right

Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead View Post
I guess bottom line to the OP for me is if you end up going MIG, try to get something rated for 1/8” thicker than whatever you’re welding. Practice on some scrap of the same thickness as your tubes, and make sure you are getting good penetration before you weld the doors. If you have a chance to go TIG, it still has my vote. If you can do one, you are only a little practice away from being able to do the other, and once you see how in control you are of your penetration and puddle with a TIG, you never go back IMO. MIG is fast, easy to make look pretty, and easy to use upside down…all the other advantages go to TIG IMO.
regardless of what was said above, i do agree with you here, except for the points about tig, as i honesty don't know enough about tig to comment, but a half decent mig, a 120, would be able to do what he is doing...
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 03-14-2010
99ranger4x4's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 12,198
Meathead.. Tonnes is a Canadian thing, deal with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wellcom2knoxvile View Post
so i think Matt is arguing for his abilities due to the resources he has. YES we all want to be able to TIG weld but some of us can weld fine with a MIG and trusts our work to hold up under abuse!!
finally someone sees my point. a decent TIG welder costs a TON more than a decent MIG welder. Just over a grand will get you a BRAND NEW Miller that will do MORE than 99% of the people on this site make.. with the exception of like Jey working for BTF haha.. I can TIG weld, just don't have enough time with one to be as consistent as I would like to be.

Just over $1000-1500 will get you a nice used Miller 250 which is far more capable than anything you'll ever need for fabrication on vehicles. I think around $600 will get you a Hobart 180?

A water cooled Miller 220v water cooled TIG welder is gonna cost you upwards of 5 grand. While a stick welder will cost only a few hundred bucks... take your pick. A stick welder WILL weld anything you need to weld. Different rods/current settings allow you to weld mild steel, cast, aluminum.. Its just harder to fit it into some places and it takes longer to lay down the equivalent bead than with a MIG.



And to the Moron that says he NEEDS to RENT a welder??

anyways, Renting a welder would cost a fortune if he rented it long enough to get good. I think you even said it takes time to get good, you cant be good if you don't practice.

Last edited by 99ranger4x4; 03-14-2010 at 12:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 03-14-2010
meathead's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99ranger4x4 View Post
Meathead.. Tonnes is a Canadian thing, deal with it.
More like a metric / French thing...but thanks for the help. Call it a tonne or a ton - if you've done that much work with a welder you remember the machine you used to do it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 99ranger4x4 View Post
And to the Moron that says he NEEDS to RENT a welder??

anyways, Renting a welder would cost a fortune if he rented it long enough to get good. I think you even said it takes time to get good, you cant be good if you don't practice.
Local equip rental is $42/Day - $200/week Miller MIG $50/Day - $230/week Miller TIG

He can rent either for a full week for less than 1/5th the cost of buying...and obviously doesn't do enough welding to justify purchasing. If he doesn't have someone to borrow from, rental doesn't seem like a bad way to go to me.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 03-14-2010
meathead's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 102
Best way to go might be to sign up for an evening or weekend welding class at a local tech school. Probably $50 to $100 for the class, and for that you'll get to use their equipment to learn on - then just pay a 1/2 day or 1 day rental and weld the doors up. There is an off chance you'd even be able to tell the instructor what you wanted to learn for, and weld the doors up as part of the class with an instructor over your shoulder. If you've got a few extra hours, a class is worth it IMO - great way to learn the basics.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 03-14-2010
coleary15's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 343
yeah a class would be kinda fun...ill look into it, thanks guys
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 03-14-2010
99ranger4x4's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 12,198
dude, you're not gonna get good in a week. most peoples welds are just starting to get some what decent after a few weeks. ESPECIALLY with a TIG welder, that takes getting used to.

you talk all this **** about knowing what you're talking about.. and then turn around and say to rent one, but not only rent but rent for only a week..
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 03-14-2010
01_ranger_4x4's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Muskegon, Michigan
Posts: 3,585
if youre serious about building some doors you could probably find a local welding shop to weld them up for you. draw up some accurate prints with the measurements and such and any good welding shop will be able to weld em up for you. i know there are some awsome welding shops around here that would charge less than $300 to weld up something like that.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 03-14-2010
meathead's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99ranger4x4 View Post
dude, you're not gonna get good in a week. most peoples welds are just starting to get some what decent after a few weeks. ESPECIALLY with a TIG welder, that takes getting used to.

you talk all this **** about knowing what you're talking about.. and then turn around and say to rent one, but not only rent but rent for only a week..

I suggested he take classes at a local tech school...did you not catch that?
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 03-14-2010
Ranger_Envy's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Newton, Ks
Posts: 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01_ranger_4x4 View Post
if youre serious about building some doors you could probably find a local welding shop to weld them up for you. draw up some accurate prints with the measurements and such and any good welding shop will be able to weld em up for you. i know there are some awsome welding shops around here that would charge less than $300 to weld up something like that.
They'd probably have a tubing bender too so the final product would be a lot nicer.

I can't believe how stupid this debate has gotten. A MIG would do this job just fine and are quick and easy to find a person with one. They'll have no problem making a tube door that'll be stronger than the rest of the cab they'll be attached too. We just bought a new JCB wheel loader and its almost completely MIG welded. The boom on it is over 1" thick steel easy and it was all MIG'ed. If you've ever stick welded before I'd say you could pick up MIG well enough in a a few hours that you could build these doors. Really with a MIG its just about learning to adjust the settings right then just pull the trigger and go. A monkey could damn near do it if the machine was set right.

TIG's are nice but not the easiest to learn and do. It would take alot of practice to get good enough to make something you could be happy with and rely on to hold up. I find it hilarious that the overall strength of the MIG was questioned but then the suggestion to go rent a TIG and self teach yourself to weld was given as a better option.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 03-15-2010
--weezl--'s Avatar
Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Calgary AB, Canada
Posts: 3,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger_Envy View Post
They'd probably have a tubing bender too so the final product would be a lot nicer.

I can't believe how stupid this debate has gotten. A MIG would do this job just fine and are quick and easy to find a person with one. They'll have no problem making a tube door that'll be stronger than the rest of the cab they'll be attached too. We just bought a new JCB wheel loader and its almost completely MIG welded. The boom on it is over 1" thick steel easy and it was all MIG'ed. If you've ever stick welded before I'd say you could pick up MIG well enough in a a few hours that you could build these doors. Really with a MIG its just about learning to adjust the settings right then just pull the trigger and go. A monkey could damn near do it if the machine was set right.

TIG's are nice but not the easiest to learn and do. It would take alot of practice to get good enough to make something you could be happy with and rely on to hold up. I find it hilarious that the overall strength of the MIG was questioned but then the suggestion to go rent a TIG and self teach yourself to weld was given as a better option.
not close to a couple hours to learn to mig, if you knew how to stick... if you can stick, and get a decent mig, i say 20 minutes and you will have beads that look descent, and will be strong enough to do these doors...

mig is by far the easiest welding to learn... point and shoot, then learn your penitration and how to keep a puddle moving... (agreeing with you not arguing)
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 03-15-2010
meathead's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger_Envy View Post
I can't believe how stupid this debate has gotten. A MIG would do this job just fine and are quick and easy to find a person with one. They'll have no problem making a tube door that'll be stronger than the rest of the cab they'll be attached too. We just bought a new JCB wheel loader and its almost completely MIG welded. The boom on it is over 1" thick steel easy and it was all MIG'ed. If you've ever stick welded before I'd say you could pick up MIG well enough in a a few hours that you could build these doors. Really with a MIG its just about learning to adjust the settings right then just pull the trigger and go. A monkey could damn near do it if the machine was set right.
99.9% of automated welders (the ones that welded your loader included) are MIGs. The issue isn't the strength of a MIG weld, it's the strength of a MIG weld from a 120v machine. Out of the dozens of 120v MIGs out there rated at 3/8" to 1/2", there are maybe a handful that can actually get proper penetration on that thickness of metal. Miller and lincoln are usually pretty honest with their ratings (their 120V MIGs I believe are generally only rated to 3/8", and they are two of the ones who can actually do it). A lot of other companies, you may as well take what they're rated for and subtract 1/8" to 1/4". I've used non name brand machines rated to 1/2" that had to be run into the ground to get good enough penetration for 1/4" sheet. If you have a good machine, you're right that MIG is about as difficult as writing with a crayon...but the majority are not good machines - and the machines that welded your loader are barely related.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 03-15-2010
coleary15's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 343
i cant find the post that said what thickness tubing i needed, can someone help out?
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 03-15-2010
99ranger4x4's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 12,198
.120 would be fine.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 03-15-2010
99ranger4x4's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 12,198
rofl at 30 minutes more to learn to TIG. you're full of ****. Not to mention making a proper weld on tube/pipe takes a quite a bit more practice, its far trickier than just welding on a flat plane.

and a TIG weld doesn't ALWAYS tell you that you weren't running it right, how would I know? Gee I've been to 2 schools for this **** dude, I've done it, I've seen peers do it. get off your ****ing throne and just let him MIG it. there is absolutely nothing wrong with it on the mild steel he'll be using.



And if he takes a welding course, he won't need to worry about what to rent.. Most classes will let you bring stuff in to weld if your doing good.

Last edited by 99ranger4x4; 03-15-2010 at 02:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 03-15-2010
meathead's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99ranger4x4 View Post
rofl at 30 minutes more to learn to TIG. you're full of ****. Not to mention making a proper weld on tube/pipe takes a quite a bit more practice, its far trickier than just welding on a flat plane.

and a TIG weld doesn't ALWAYS tell you that you weren't running it right, how would I know? Gee I've been to 2 schools for this **** dude, I've done it, I've seen peers do it. get off your ****ing throne and just let him MIG it. there is absolutely nothing wrong with it on the mild steel he'll be using.

Two schools and you haven't mentioned any welding certification...how's that working out for you? Maybe you should have gone to one school for welding, and another for reading comprehension - I agreed a long time ago that if he can find a good machine MIG will be fine.

Yeah, you're right. TIG welding is &^%$ing rocket science. And BS it's far trickier to weld pipe - I'd trust a newb's pipe welding before his butt weld any day. Honestly you guys who keep preaching how hard TIG is, I have serious doubts you've done much if any. If you already know how to stick and mig and you sit down and work a foot pedal for a bit, you're pretty much there. You already know how to move a puddle around, you already know what propper penetration looks like...all you need to do is get the hang of controlling your arc and figure out if/when to add filler. If you need a year of practice to run a neat bead with a TIG, maybe you should buy some elmers and head for the woodshop.

And if he uses .120 (which I agree will be fine), then yeah he can MIG it with anything. He (or someone) was talking about 3/8" wall pipe...which I still say would be right at the limit and questionable for most 120 MIGs

Last edited by meathead; 03-15-2010 at 03:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 03-16-2010
99ranger4x4's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 12,198
I don't need and certs you ****ing dip ****, doesn't mean I can't weld.. All the Links, link pockets, steering setups and all the brackets I've welded on mine and my friends axles/rigs are still there.. Certs are like ASE certs, cool it means you can do it.. but without them it doesn't mean you cant.

and yea, maybe pipe.. but have you tried welding 1.75x120 tube? its pretty tricky to keep the proper angle you need and still move around the tube..especially on like a 60* joint when all you've been use to is welding and being able to rest your arms on a table.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 03-16-2010
99ranger4x4's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 12,198
Whatever. I'm out.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 03-16-2010
--weezl--'s Avatar
Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Calgary AB, Canada
Posts: 3,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead View Post
Two schools and you haven't mentioned any welding certification...how's that working out for you? Maybe you should have gone to one school for welding, and another for reading comprehension - I agreed a long time ago that if he can find a good machine MIG will be fine.

Yeah, you're right. TIG welding is &^%$ing rocket science. And BS it's far trickier to weld pipe - I'd trust a newb's pipe welding before his butt weld any day. Honestly you guys who keep preaching how hard TIG is, I have serious doubts you've done much if any. If you already know how to stick and mig and you sit down and work a foot pedal for a bit, you're pretty much there. You already know how to move a puddle around, you already know what propper penetration looks like...all you need to do is get the hang of controlling your arc and figure out if/when to add filler. If you need a year of practice to run a neat bead with a TIG, maybe you should buy some elmers and head for the woodshop.

And if he uses .120 (which I agree will be fine), then yeah he can MIG it with anything. He (or someone) was talking about 3/8" wall pipe...which I still say would be right at the limit and questionable for most 120 MIGs
you need to calm down... this is a pointless argument, everyone involved has said what they needed to say, and not managed to convince anyone of anything... everyone's points are relative, and moot... plus, no one is even arguing that tig is hard to learn it's hardER...

bottom line is, this thread was intended to discuss half doors, which then moved to tube doors, and how to make them... as far as i am concerned, that is where this thread should be, which is where the OP's last post was...

i hope everyone (myself included, as i admit to being involved in the hijacking of the thread) can drop this pointless discussion, and go back to the topic of the doors
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 03-16-2010
wellcom2knoxvile's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Corvallis, OR/Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,390
thanks james! you are the man!!!! way to go!
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 03-16-2010
coleary15's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 343
guys i could care less about what you can and cant do. i just want the borttom line welding info and anything to help me. how much .120 tubing would i need? whats the best place to buy it?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Legal? dangerranger General Technical & Electrical 26 10-06-2005 01:52 PM
Legal to ride in a pickup truck bed? NHBubba_Revisited General Ford Ranger Discussion 33 09-08-2005 10:28 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:58 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.