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After 1-2 yrs no problems, the 1992 3.0 V6 automatic ranger would not start back up after getting home. Went to my battery shop and the guy said my battery needs to be charged up fully once I replace my alternator. Took his word and got a new alternator (had to swap pullys too...) and charged my battery. Wouldn’t start then. Turn the key and it’d make one click. With a jump, it would sometimes turn slow, sometimes not at all. Tested battery, he said it’s fine, I know the voltage is good but idk about load or CCA I have to take his word. I even tried my 2004 rangers battery which tested out brand new according to AAA 2 nights ago (starter went out again that night on the 2004 ranger, only 2 months old, haven’t replaced it yet btw still fine) and the good battery from it wouldn’t work any different.
Its inly when when I jump it, and leave the key in the on position, watching the voltage gauge go up, will it finally fire up and run! Alternator looked like it was almost boarderline overcharging and battery guy said keep an eye on that may be the regulator.
Im starting to think I didn’t need to replace my alternator at all. It was very old, I can show pics, I kinda screwed up a connection on it while taking it out unfortunately.
Battery guy said it might be the starter and when I jump it, giving it more power, it allows the starter to turn, while without the extra power a jump gives may not give it enough to turn at all or fast enough if it does move.
any thoughts? I’ll try to give more details just ask me anything.
You really just need a volt meter to test vehicle electrical and charging systems, they are fairly straight forward
A good battery will test 12.3v to 12.8v, after sitting for an hour or two, just after charging you can't test voltage and get an accurate test of the battery, has to sit
12.8v is a newer battery
12.3v is 5 year old battery
12.2v and under is a failing battery
Or if voltage is slowing dropping when you test it, then it has a shorted cell inside, so bad battery, most batteries fail in this way as they age, work OK if they only sit a few hours between starts, but if they sit overnight they are dead, shorted cell drains the whole battery
Starter motor needs 60 to 75amps to turn the engine, thats alot, which is why the battery cables are so large
Those AMPs need to flow down the positive cable and THEN back up the Negative cable to the battery, a poor connection or cable on either the + or the - means less AMPs
Voltage actually flows the other way but thats another story, lol
Most car batteries have 500-700CCA(cold cranking amps), this is enough for 15 or so LONG cranks of the starter motor, in a row, if you let battery sit and "cool down" it can crank a few more times
Yes, a starter motor can go bad and draw too many AMPs so single battery can't turn it
But battery cables and their connections are more likely failure point causing lower AMPs at the starter motor
Both the above would be over come by 2nd battery being used(a jump)
You can cut insulation back on a battery cable and have a look at the wire, whitish residue means corrosion and you need to replace that cable, retape cable if its OK
Check voltage drop
Put volt meter on battery, should read 12.3v to 12.8v as said above
Activate starter motor, should be no more than a 2.5volt drop
So you should see 10volts on meter, 9.8v is the lowest, under that and starter motor is drawing too many amps, because cables are bad or starter motor is
This is assuming a good battery, 12.3v to 12.8v
If you don't see it drop below 12v then starter motor is not turning on at all, bad motor or connection
If you are testing voltage drop on working engine then disable coil for a no start, crank only for test
Alternator/voltage regulator should output 13.5v to 14.9v, as read at the Battery terminals
Regulator uses "pushback" to regulate the AMPs/Volts the alternator outputs
Just after starting the Battery is drained from starter motor use, so there is no "pushback" and regulator will output 14+ volts, 14.5v-14.9v
As battery get ReCharged it can't asborb more voltage so there is pushback and regulator starts to lower the AMPs/Volts, it should stablize at about 13.5 to 13.8volts
This can take 5 minutes or so at idle before you see voltage dropping under 14volts
If it doesn't start to drop then either battery is failing, can't hold a charge so no "pushback" for regulator to "see", or regulator could be failing
If you REV the engine and hold it at say 2,000rpms and voltage goes up and stays up then regulator is not working correctly
Regulators job is to create stable voltage in the system, so changes in engine RPMs should not change alternator output voltage very much, it may go up briefly with RPMs but regulator should then drop it back down, 13.5-13.8v is expected after initial recharge of battery, regardless of engine RPMs
After voltage is stable at say 13.6v, turn on head lights and heater fan to high, voltage should drop and then come back up to 13.6v, that regulator detecting less pushback so it increases alternator output until pushback is back.
If voltage drops and doesn't come back up then increase RPMs, if voltage comes back up then there is a failed Field in the alternator, i.e. Dimming headlights at idle, this means there is a failed field in the alternator
Test alternator wires
Key off
B+ terminal on the back of the alternator, the stud, should read battery Voltage, so if battery reads 12.5v then that's what you should see, use the alternators metal case as the ground, not the battery.
Unplug 3 wire connector on voltage regulator
Yellow wire should read Battery Voltage
Green wire 0volts
Turn on the key
Green wire should now read battery voltage, this is the Battery Light wire, just FYI
If these wires read correctly then vehicle wiring is OK
Ok I did volt meter test it and it stayed near 12.7 12.8
i will look into the rest of what you’re saying.
the connections that go on the battery posts, at least the positive, is kinda janky. I’ll attach a picture tonight. Worried it may be that.
I wonder what started the problem so suddenly, and if I even did need to change out my alternator.
I don’t wanna return it because I’ll have to impact the nut and replace the pully back on again.
If starter motor goes out, it generally just dies one day, no warning, like fuel pumps, one day they work then they don't
If battery is failing you will start to notice engine cranking slower usually, this can be cables going out or alternator going out as well, but if it only happens after battery sits over night then its the battery, not cables or starter
If alternator is going out, dimming head lights at idle and battery cranking engine slower, even after only sitting an hour or less
Volt meter can tell you all you need to know on what you need to replace
Alright we’ll the night it stopped I had only gone home for 5 mins before running back out and it wouldn’t start or turn at all. So it was very sudden. Also I have had no signs. Starter started the same all the way up until that moment last week.
You had me thinking the cables for a min but now I’m thinking starter.
Soemtimes with that extra battery it wouldn’t turn, but as soon as I tapped once on it while a friend turned the key, it would begin to but only slowly turn this time today. Probably because I didn’t have the battery charging overnight plus using my other ranger to jump.
Really thinking the starter is it. I will try the other things when I have time in the morning or whenever. I already ordered a starter since they both use the same starter I could use it either way being my 2004 ranger had a moment where it needed to be tapped to start randomly. Starter on the 04 is 2 months old...
It can be the cables as well, a failing starter draws more amps and that causes BOTH positive and negative battery cables to heat up and that causes damage to the wires inside
Bend the battery cables, if they start to crack then they have been overheated, a lot, the heat dries out the insulation material
Use OHM meter, battery cables should have 0 ohms, its a BIG wire, so no resistance, if you get 1 ohm or more then replace that cable
Bad cable can also cause alternator to output 14+ volts long term, just like failing battery can, its because of the resistance in the bad cable
Wow thanks for the good tips. The cables must be fine but I’ll do the more in depth testing as you said tomorrow (day off). However, the bend test you just said created no cracking sound or feel. I’m assuming they’re alright but the condition of the end of the positive connector looks pretty beat up and old so further testing is needed tomorrow. I’ll head outside and take a pic for ya and post it right away.
Ill be be using my volt meter to check everything. I also have that ohm tester so I’ll check this as well.
Only thing I’ve changed is the alternator since the battery guy said to. But I think he didn’t actually have hard evidence from his meter tests (he has all sorts of reading equipment not just a volt meter) because the issue still remains and he assumes it’s the starter now because of it turning under higher power. Hopefully he had readings proving the alternator was bad because I’d be upset changing out a good part for a crappy alternator with a bad regulator or something since the two times I’ve ran it, both had the voltage gauge in the truck reading higher up at the, and sometimes a lil past the L in NORMAL on the gauge. I bet it’s overcharging or boarderline. The battery has been charged overnight each time I tested it.
Starter should be coming any day now. I may have an extra coming for my 04 as well or in case I get a bad one. I’ll be able to test it out after changing it also and may even jump to changing it before finishing testing with the meter if it comes soon enough.
If I got new battery cables, where would the ends go to? Is there a junction before it splits out to areas around the engine bay? I always thought that it would be a pain to do so.
Another note, every single time I have someone turn the key to start (w/ jumper cables on) it would start to turn the starter. Slowly tho, hasn’t been able to start lately even with the help. However I haven’t charged the battery over night like I did the first tests that got it started. Shouldn’t need to since it tests out according to the battery guy, and my voltage meter reads 12.7 - 12.8 each time I test the battery cold.
At rest Battery at 12.7v will have plenty of AMPs to start engine, 100% capacity
12.5v is 75% capacity
12.3v is 50% capacity
Capacity is the Cold Cranking AMPs(CCA) available, the colder the outside temp the lower the CCA will be on any vehicle battery
Remember the battery is ONLY USED to start the engine, after startup the alternator provides ALL THE POWER for the vehicle, i.e. after startup vehicle voltage is 13.5-14.5v, battery is only 12.7v, so it can't supply any voltage to vehicle, voltage runs TO the battery to keep it charged up for next startup
So either Battery cables are limiting AMPs or starter motor is drawing too many AMPs
Yes, in 1992 the battery cables are a bit messy because of the transition to starter relay/solenoid setup
In general you need a larger positive cable to the starter motor, so longer cable, then a smaller positive cable to the Power Distribution terminal(on or near engine fuse box)
Negative should have a larger longer cable hook to engine block, and a smaller cable hooked to Rad support/inner fender
These larger cables are for the starter motor, it needs 60-80AMPs instantly to turn over the engine
Starter motor is bolted to engine/bellhousing and that's where it gets its negative 70-80AMPs
That's the way all electricity works, AC or DC, if positive needs 70amps then negative also needs 70amps
If AMP flow on either is limited to, say 20amps, then that's the maximum AMPs that can flow
So one bad connection or one bad cable can limit the flow for the whole system
Ron I’ve checked nearly everything. There’s a couple things I wanted to ask you about with my findings tho.
Anyway I wanted to add that I finally did change the starter. Didn’t help. Still needed to jump to start. Battery guy said my battery is fine but now the volt meter readings go haywire even when it’s cold.
So so I tried my other good battery from my 04, and it didn’t start. In fact when I tried to, the cab light when out, all electrical stuff went off, and wouldn’t turn back on until I unhooked and reconnected the battery again. This battery I used to test this time was tested and said to be BRAND NEW by the AAA worker. So a new starter, alternator, and battery did not solve the issue. I’ll bring you my findings when I got more time but Lss I still don’t know the problem yet.
thinking it may be the battery cables. You’re saying I can just carefully slice into them and check for corrosion? They DONT crack when I bend them though.
"In fact when I tried to, the cab light when out, all electrical stuff went off, and wouldn’t turn back on until I unhooked and reconnected the battery again"
This means a connection heated up and then disconnected so no power, that can happen if cable ends are not properly clamped or bolted on
Yes, you can slice back insulation and look for whitish residue, corrosion, look at least 3 or 4 inches down the cable
Have tape handy to recover the bare metal wire
This applies to BOTH Positive and Negative cables, it will be one of the larger cables thats causing the problem
That there corrosion? Kinda greenish. Was thinking maybe it could be some sort of layer or insulation beneath the wire cover but it’s corrosion. I can’t believe it. New alternator and starter. Both very old but come on... I think the new alt has a bad regulator unless the cables were causing the voltage gauge to be high (on the L of NORMAL), hope not because I kinda fucked up the socket on the old one for the baby wire to plug into it... and ghetto rigged up my new starter because the connection was different (in other thread).
Ron, as always, thank you.
Now I need to figure out how to replace these cables. I can’t even see where they lead back down to. It’s at the bottom of the engine on the passenger side. Only way to access it is from below so I’ll be jacking it up here in an hour and checking out how I can replace these today!
Hey would I need a full cable that goes all the way to the starter or would I be able to just get one of these shorter ones? I just don’t see where on my ranger to take out only this much length. Looks like it doesn’t stop until it gets to the starter (no breaks one complete cable) but I’m not positive.
Motorcraft cable is $90, now I like to spend extra for motorcraft stuff like the camshaft position sensor and synchronizer, but for a cable... I can’t pay them $90 for that.
some are $50, and the other 2 are $12.99 and $20. May have to wait and go online to find quality for cheap but I’m anxious to get this done.
let me know if there’s a way to only use the shorter length of wire without having to deal with the run all the way to the starter, however it would be nice to get the motorcraft one since it has the proper connection for my new starter. I had to use a male end tab with too small of a gauge to go over the starter post. Sticks out like this.
Yes, that would be corrosion, and pretty bad at that
Yes, one long larger cable from Battery Positive to starter motor, and smaller cable to fuse box
Also one long larger cable from Battery Negative to engine block, often to starter motor bolt
You can check negative cable but I would replace both
Yes, 3rd party for battery cables is fine, Motorcraft won't matter much for this type of part
If possible pull the old cables out first, take pictures of how they are routed
Then measure them and/or take them with you to Parts Store
Better to be 10" too long than 1/2" too short
I put the new cables in all good. But still has the NO START issue. Just hear a click, if I hold the key on sometimes I’ll hear succeeding individual clicks (same click).
no idea what do it now, the cables were bad so I thought surely I had it.
Jumped it to start it, drove around, would sometimes sputter very slightly when I would WOT but not always. Volt meter stayed near L in NORMAL and bounced a couple times.
I tried the other rangers battery in this one before the cable fix, but now that I replaced all the cables the other battery works. I bought a motorcraft battery and it’s back up and running again.
however my old battery tested out good once again at 2 auto parts stores and at the battery place again. The positive terminal is all eaten up! I only noticed the chip off the top when I bought the battery at budget battery. Now look at the bottom I noticed it when charging that the clamp was literally eating into the post!
Battery is a used one from budget but it’s only 6 months old. Anyway it’s workinf great now. Read the previous messages I had replaced a lot I really think it was a combination of the bad cables and the battery
12-04-2018
