K&N vs OEM Paper Airfilters - Page 7 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


General Technical & Electrical General technical and electrical discussion for the Ford Ranger that does not fit in any other sub-forum.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #151  
Old 03-15-2009
Level I Supporter
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by STL View Post
Interesting I would like to meet this guy.

I have worked on several engines Duramax Diesel's with K&N filters or other type filters you oil, and have never came across one that was like he described.
Here is the site, his member name is blacksnapon:

http://www.fordtruckfanatics.com/forum/index.php

I'm sure he would be glad to talk to you!
  #152  
Old 03-15-2009
Level I Supporter
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tee Rev View Post
This last so called test, has a very serious flaw, & actually explains why a paper filter requires several times the area of gauze to flow an equal amount of air.

Your small area of paper has nowhere near the porosity as the same area of gauze. Of course the smoke won't pass through easily, or at all.

Try it again with 5.5 times the paper & show the results!
Sorry, you are dead wrong! the filter efficiency will stay the same, you will just get increased air flow capacity with the additional area. In the experiment the air flow was very low, just the convection off the heated resistor.

If your thinking was correct, the full size K&N would be passing marbles!!:D:D
  #153  
Old 03-15-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
IMO that so called test is out there. Waaaay out there. Or.. at the VERY LEAST mr stalker has not explained how it relates to what an engine actually sees in daily operation.

I think that he has a basic premiss.. and a hidden agenda. One he won't admit to, but everyone knows it. OEM is all that there should ever be.
What's interesting is that when he talks to an actual OEM engineer.. he denies their points because it doesn't fit his goal.


I would agree that a K&N filters less. But.. so what?

Mr stalker continually quotes *someone else*. Where is *his* experience in tearing down engines? Post up those pics Mr stalker. And while your at it.. lets see the amount of grit pre TB and POST TB on a engine that's used a K&N. Given your (false) premiss of a K&N letting in so much dirt.. would we not see the exact smame amount of grit in the zip tube as we'd see on an intake runner?

LOL.. go ahead post up some pics of that!

LOL... fact is he has an agenda. He wants to hide it by *NOT* showing actual data. And he quotes *other people* to try to make *his* hidden agenda seem plausible. And all for what???



Oh and BTW guys... My K&N conical is properly oiled and has about 47,000 miles on it now. The last time I checked the MAF & zip tube they were both squeeky clean. No oil and no grit. The throttle plate gets oily & carboned up on it's backside (which is normal for a car with an egr) Also, look at where the EGR is on a 4.0L. It's RIGHT BEHIND the TB.


OK so I keep asking Mr stalker for proof of his first hand experience. Not wanting to be a hypocrite.. below is proof of my findings. It shows that the EGR is a much larger source of harmful flakes of solids. (hard carbon)

These are pics from a 1995 Lincoln towncar w/4.6L V8. 207,000 miles on it. Nothing but standard paper air filters used it's whole life. It's had about 9 years in Tenn and the rest has been up here in Mich. Both owners are older men and drive "easy". The only repairs this engine has ever seen was new plugs, wires, and a bottom rad hose about 3 yrs ago.

which btw.. I put in a new set of bosch +2 along with some new wires.. an it runs much better. Plus his gas milage is now back where it used to be.
Gee... how could that possibly be?





















This last pic shows the real deal! This is a joint where the egr (inert gasses) flow into the intake. You can see that in 207,000 miles it litterally plugs up the passages.




Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 03-15-2009 at 06:46 AM.
  #154  
Old 03-15-2009
Level I Supporter
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
IMO that so called test is out there. Waaaay out there. Or.. at the VERY LEAST mr stalker has not explained how it relates to what an engine actually sees in daily operation.

I think that he has a basic premiss.. and a hidden agenda. One he won't admit to, but everyone knows it. OEM is all that there should ever be.
What's interesting is that when he talks to an actual OEM engineer.. he denies their points because it doesn't fit his goal.


I would agree that a K&N filters less. But.. so what?

Mr stalker continually quotes *someone else*. Where is *his* experience in tearing down engines? Post up those pics Mr stalker. And while your at it.. lets see the amount of grit pre TB and POST TB on a engine that's used a K&N. Given your (false) premiss of a K&N letting in so much dirt.. would we not see the exact smame amount of grit in the zip tube as we'd see on an intake runner?

Rich, this is your post, not mine regarding K&N intakes:

You will *likely* increase the amount of grit entering the intake.


And, all the reports of contaminated MAF sensors, high Si in UOA, and "dusted" turbos when running K&Ns have nothing to do with EGR!!

Last edited by Takeda; 03-15-2009 at 07:15 AM.
  #155  
Old 03-15-2009
4LO 4.0's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Grovetown, Ga
Posts: 650
I can not believe that an air filter thread is gone on to 7 pages, with no one actually proving there "theory".

I have 179,xxx miles on my 98 Ranger, and it's had the same K&N for over
120,000 of those miles, never had a MAF, IAC, or any other related problems from it. Hell, it's been at least a year since I even looked at it!!

Does it flow better than stock? I don't have a clue.
Does it filter better than stock? Again, I have no clue.

What I do know is- that this is a site geared toward modifications to a truck.
If you want to keep your totally stock- Then by all means do so, but don't go spewing propaganda against a reputable company for no other reason than you just don't like them.
  #156  
Old 03-15-2009
03 rededge's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ellijay, GA
Posts: 126
I recently bought a k&n filter for a honda civic. The instructions in the box said that the filter was not preoiled and needed to be. It was DRY out of the box.
  #157  
Old 03-15-2009
BlutoBodine's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireRanger View Post
Ok. So this latest in a series of pointless tests that prove nothing useful has shown us what? That smoke from a resistor can go through it? Great. Who cares. This is even less useful than spreading it all out in the driveway with a tape measure.

"He is trying to save the thread but its not working."
  #158  
Old 03-15-2009
Mykhael's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: .
Posts: 4,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Here is the site, his member name is blacksnapon:

http://www.fordtruckfanatics.com/forum/index.php

I'm sure he would be glad to talk to you!
Good he is from Missouri

Last edited by Mykhael; 03-15-2009 at 10:09 AM.
  #159  
Old 03-15-2009
OVERtheEDGE's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: locust grove georgia
Posts: 1,441
i like my k&n intake, only paid 200 for it with a throttle body spacer. the girl i bought the k&n from had it on her explorer and had it dynoed and it showed either 6 or 8 hp increase.
  #160  
Old 03-15-2009
Tee Rev's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary Ab
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Sorry, you are dead wrong! the filter efficiency will stay the same, you will just get increased air flow capacity with the additional area. In the experiment the air flow was very low, just the convection off the heated resistor.

If your thinking was correct, the full size K&N would be passing marbles!!:D:D
Just for giggles, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt .... or as I like to call it ...more rope!

Let me see if I understand the point of this experiment.

You believe that this test shows how the paper media filters the smoke particulate?
  #161  
Old 03-15-2009
Mykhael's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: .
Posts: 4,197
I would like to see the same test with some sort of dust in the tube.

I think that would be more accurate to what the filter is designed for.
  #162  
Old 03-15-2009
whippersnapper02's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 7,415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
You guys are in what's called denial!!
I'm not in denial. Maybe if you weren't such an a hole people would trust you. You come on here and you try to force your invalid theories on everyone just because you don't like a certain product. You have no real proof except on what is on the internet and you try to prove yourself with bogus tests. You stalk Rich all day. I have seen it. As soon as Rich posts you are sure to post in the same thread right after him about how he is wrong and you are right. Then you go post some stupid pictures to try to make it seem that you don't start the drama when you do. Most importantly you say OEM is the best yet you have an aftermarket exhaust and speakers in you truck. What you need to do is get a job at Walmart as the greeter or buy a motor home and travel to take up your time. Poor wife of yours. "Bob can you get off the pc and spend time with me?" "No! I have to prove to some kids on the internet that I think I know what I'm talking about." You posted your credentials once and I saw nothing pertaining to cars. It was all computer stuff. I think you should stick to what you know best.

Also I was right about the Carrera GT and a 911 Carrera not being the same car. You never acknowledged that. Shows how you can't stand to be wrong. I'm sure you will follow up with something off topic like I'm the guy that said disconnect the battery when the engine is running. At least I said I was wrong.
  #163  
Old 03-15-2009
Tee Rev's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary Ab
Posts: 42
What would be even better,

Mount the "smoking resistors" a few inches above the filter media & have the fans draw the smoke through the media.

That way we can see how easily air is pulled through the media as well as it's ability to filter particulate.

Heck! Throw some fine dust into the mix & we have a real test!
  #164  
Old 03-15-2009
Mykhael's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: .
Posts: 4,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tee Rev View Post
What would be even better,
Mount the "smoking resistors" a few inches above the filter media & have the fans draw the smoke through the media.
That way we can see how easily air is pulled through the media as well as it's ability to filter particulate.
Heck! Throw some fine dust into the mix & we have a real test!
That would be a good test. Since stuff it suppose to be getting sucked in anyway


I just wanna see dust or something in there also and see what is caught vs. what is passed through
  #165  
Old 03-15-2009
FireRanger's Avatar  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 0
I have an idea for test. Set both filter medias on fire with an air flow equal to that of an engine at 2,500rpm. Then we can see which will be better if you have to drive through burning field.
  #166  
Old 03-15-2009
chainfire's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mission B.C.
Posts: 3,126
Quote:
These are pics from a 1995 Lincoln towncar w/4.6L V8. 207,000 miles on it. Nothing but standard paper air filters used it's whole life. It's had about 9 years in Tenn and the rest has been up here in Mich. Both owners are older men and drive "easy". The only repairs this engine has ever seen was new plugs, wires, and a bottom rad hose about 3 yrs ago.

which btw.. I put in a new set of bosch +2 along with some new wires.. an it runs much better. Plus his gas milage is now back where it used to be.
Gee... how could that possibly be?
Well considering that there has only been old men driving this car, you could argue that this carbon build up is directly related to that. I am sure the car has never seen over 3000 rpm. This would allow more than normal carbon build up. I know deisels that are only driven in the city have issues with this. The motor does not reach a high enough temp to burn off the carbon.

I can't see this pertaining at all as a deterrent for using a paper filter, or a K&N, in fact, not to be a dick, but what was the point of posting this?
  #167  
Old 03-15-2009
PUNKROCKPILOT's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Santa Maria
Posts: 446
jeez...... who really f*n cares about all this b*tching and moaning. Run whatever the F*K you want and STFU!!!!!
  #168  
Old 03-15-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainfire View Post
I can't see this pertaining at all as a deterrent for using a paper filter, or a K&N, in fact, not to be a dick, but what was the point of posting this?
A legit question deserves a legit answer.

Carbon buildup from easy drivers happens on the intake valves and *mostly* within the combustion chamber.

He uses the cheapest 87 octane from speedway, and when I pulled the intake off you can easily see all the intake valves. They all had very little to no build up on them. Actually.. I was supprised at how clean they were!

OH and I'm not saying it happens.. wink wink. But he has a 17yr old who uses the car from time to time. So 3000rpms max.. hum.

The carbon build up I show in those pics are a result solely of the EGR system.
(egr is open when the PCM commands at anything above idle and it'll shut off just before WOT) So whether your mr old guy driving 45mph on the hwy.. or mr 17yr old driving *easily* to the movies.. the egr is open and recirculating inert gasses + combustion deposites.

Regards, Rich
  #169  
Old 03-15-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by PUNKROCKPILOT View Post
jeez...... who really f*n cares about all this b*tching and moaning. Run whatever the F*K you want and STFU!!!!!
For mr stalker it's a matter of pride. For me it's a matter of keeping science pure... and having a little fun.

There is a saying:

Argueing with an engineer is like wrestling in the mud with a pig. After a few hours you come to realize that he likes it.

Rich
  #170  
Old 03-15-2009
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: okc,ok
Posts: 9
If people don't want to oil the K&N or use a filter that needs to be oiled,you can get a AEM DRY FLOW filter.I've heard that these a very good filters.Just my two cents worth.
  #171  
Old 03-15-2009
CBFranger's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 1,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
This test says nothing about flow. The air flow is very low, just the convection from the resistor heating.
You're right, your test shows nothing at all.
  #172  
Old 03-15-2009
03 rededge's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ellijay, GA
Posts: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBFranger View Post
You're right, your test shows nothing at all.
Agreed
  #173  
Old 03-15-2009
SparkYZ's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Granada Hills, CA
Posts: 679
Will someone just ban Takeda from all subforums with the exception of Photography?
  #174  
Old 03-15-2009
FireRanger's Avatar  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkYZ View Post
Will someone just ban Takeda from all subforums with the exception of Photography?
Well now what fun would that be? How else could we learn the filtration properties of a device when put up against the massive air currents created by a burning resistor.
  #175  
Old 03-15-2009
SparkYZ's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Granada Hills, CA
Posts: 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireRanger View Post
Well now what fun would that be? How else could we learn the filtration properties of a device when put up against the massive air currents created by a burning resistor.

Haha this is true!

I guess we need him around for complete off topic, non sequitir tests!



On a serious note, his OEM **** ways are dirtying up so many threads it's pathetic.
Closed Thread

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Charging / Starting issues... (forget the morning paper) sawred General Technical & Electrical 21 08-04-2006 09:48 AM
Sand Paper Question 00RANGER00 Exterior Semi-Tech 5 09-02-2005 10:34 AM
Most expensive piece of paper I've bought yet... Gearhead61 General Ford Ranger Discussion 26 06-09-2005 04:11 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:30 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.