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  #51  
Old 12-18-2007
D.
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( Cracks nuckles ) Time to get serious...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoDaK
your right its very simple to run a car off hydrogen.. and i know they do it with propane and methane but gases even though they are gases they are not the same,
I have to think back over 20 years here ( Yeah I'm old ) but if memory serves me correctly, theres gasses, solids and liquids as forms of ' matter '. They each have distinguishing properties thus, they are classified in said groups.

So.. you want me to believe theres a difference in one gaseous state to the next?

Quote:
you may be able to use a propane conversion kit, but how much are those? not cheap..
http://www.propanecarbs.com/

"The average cost of our most popular kits is between $130.00 and $250.00. For exact prices and product availability, please call toll free 1-877-425-8383"

I'm getting better then the yellow pages

Quote:
all you need to run on hydrogen is 2 engine controllers... and your set to go... i would just get the controllers instead of risking running hydrogen in place of propane..
What risk? You said compressed hydrogen could be SHOT and there would be no worries...

Quote:
you can do it if you want, but im not stupid enough to try..
You want to re-state that whole ' you could shoot.. ' thingi again?

Quote:
you can go 300 miles without taking up cargo, the tanks are prolly about the size of a large nos tank
A 10lb bottle.

I use Argon with my mig. I have a 10lb bottle for it. A mig is makeing LESS energy then an engine would in order to move a 3000lb vehicle ( goign with a light weight on nsaid behicle ).

Your telling me a 10lb bottle of hydrogen could make a car/truck or 3000lb vehicle go 300 miles?

I'm not calling B.S. , I'm SCREAMING it!

Quote:
you can mount them anywhere..
No, you can't. There are already laws that state where you can put ' secondairy fuels ' on a vehicle. I knnow all too well about Nitrous laws for Canada, NNY, PA, And ohio.. I have the receipts from the citations around here somewhere to prove it.

Quote:
if you really wanted to just drop your gas tank and mount the hydrogen tanks in its place... but i know how all you like off roading so i would suggest a skid plate to protect the tanks since they will cost about 1700 bucks, but they really dont take a lot of space, you could mount them in the bed of your truck and still have plenty of room for cargo...
.

Heres one word that totally DESTROYS your whole idiotic slogan.. HAZ-MAT. I'm sure you have heard of it.

Quote:
well it doesnt cost 20,000 bucks for solar panels, it will cost about $2,000 for enough solar panels to run the hydrogen generator efficiently...
ok happy now?
I'm with that other cat.. You took some time off, but didn't do the work. I'm not even going to try and talk about hydrogen as YOU probably know more then I do. I'll give you that on a wholesale basis. What your failing to understand is theres more to the equasion then you have even touched the surface on.

Quote:
if you went to the site i said to go to it says that a complete hydrogen kit will cost 7-10 grand... thats everything needed to make and run hydrogen in a vehicle
7-10 grand. GREAT! And just WHICH state do you plan on driving a converted vehicle on their roads?

I was nice, I'm done now.
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  #52  
Old 12-18-2007
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i haven't read this whole thread cause it's far to long to jump into buuuuut when i saw the title i thought of this video: http://my.break.com/content/view.aspx?ContentID=319986
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  #53  
Old 12-18-2007
D.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuze
Like I said, there is nothing to say you can't run an engine on hydrogen, but you have no clue what you are talking about. Sure, any fool can make hydrogen from water, but there is more involved than just releasing hydrogen gas into the intake of your engine.
Heres *my* question.

YOU have seen me around these forums, you might know what I have done and haven't done.. Others can vouch that I might have a clue..

So.. If we just run a line to the intake of one of our engines.. Send hydrogen into it.. That quite ' do-able '. I won't argue that such cannot be done.

We take out the fuel injectors and weld the intake ports for such closed.. all fine and dandy.

We now have spark and hydrogen.

Hydrogen ( from what I remember.. like 20+ years back in time.. ) doesn't really burn. It has a form of fusion. Some of the by-products are Helium, Raw energy and Neutrino ( actually that happens in how a star like our sun burns, were alledgedly doing the same here but on a VERY small scale in comparrison ).

I run a LOT of Nitrous in my mills. My **** is bottle fed like none other on this site. All my vehicles have been. I know what oxidation looks like and its effects. I know a common cylinder wall can only take so much..

My question, knowing the above..

If such a process was to happen with just spark and hydrogen.. it ' wont '. Oxygen and carbons of some form MUST come into the mixture somewhere. That whole theory of just piping hydrogen into some intake manifold is pure rubbish. By removing the timing and measurement of fuel, how would an engine run and stay within means of stability? No way to meter air rate, comsumption.. flow..

I see NO possibilities with what hes offering. I want to say its laughable, but I know it IS possible.
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  #54  
Old 12-18-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a townn
i haven't read this whole thread cause it's far to long to jump into buuuuut when i saw the title i thought of this video: http://my.break.com/content/view.aspx?ContentID=319986
......someone beat KoDaK to the patent office.
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  #55  
Old 12-18-2007
D.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graniteguy
D. and KoDaK have something in common.

lol
Explain.

Quote:
The multiple quotes. They have both mastered that task.
Its a useful way of making things stand out.
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  #56  
Old 12-18-2007
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My forklift runs on propane. Does it go in as air or a liquid?
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  #57  
Old 12-18-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
Heres *my* question.

YOU have seen me around these forums, you might know what I have done and haven't done.. Others can vouch that I might have a clue..

So.. If we just run a line to the intake of one of our engines.. Send hydrogen into it.. That quite ' do-able '. I won't argue that such cannot be done.

We take out the fuel injectors and weld the intake ports for such closed.. all fine and dandy.

We now have spark and hydrogen.

Hydrogen ( from what I remember.. like 20+ years back in time.. ) doesn't really burn. It has a form of fusion. Some of the by-products are Helium, Raw energy and Neutrino ( actually that happens in how a star like our sun burns, were alledgedly doing the same here but on a VERY small scale in comparrison ).

I run a LOT of Nitrous in my mills. My **** is bottle fed like none other on this site. All my vehicles have been. I know what oxidation looks like and its effects. I know a common cylinder wall can only take so much..

My question, knowing the above..

If such a process was to happen with just spark and hydrogen.. it ' wont '. Oxygen and carbons of some form MUST come into the mixture somewhere. That whole theory of just piping hydrogen into some intake manifold is pure rubbish. By removing the timing and measurement of fuel, how would an engine run and stay within means of stability? No way to meter air rate, comsumption.. flow..

I see NO possibilities with what hes offering. I want to say its laughable, but I know it IS possible.

Hydrogen does burn...its a fuel like any other...all you need is an ignition source and oxygen. The problem is that just as with any other fuel you can't just randomly start feeding gases to the engine and expect it to work well. How much hydrogen should be flowing into the intake? How will you compensate for the demands at different engine speeds and loads? Will air or pure oxygen be used for the oxidizer? If pure oxygen, where will the oxygen compatible components be coming from? (Try pressurizing components meant for nitrous with pure oxygen...you won't even hear the boom that kills you) How will you control ignition timing? How will you be metering these gas flows? How will you compensate for intake temperature? With such low ignition energy required, how will you prevent premature ignition and flashback from hot spots in the cylinders? Have you considered the fact that a wasted spark ignition system will cause premature ignition? How cold will the plugs be that you are using? How will you ensure proper ventilation of the crankcase considering the lower ignition energy of hydrogen and the possibility of ignition within the crankcase? Have you removed the catalytic converter or considered the additional NOx emissions from combustion of a hydrogen-air combination and their effect on a catalytic converter? How do you plan to drive this in a state like CA with strict emissions standards?

Make hydrogen gas from water? Sure! Run an engine on hydrogen and air? Sure! Run an engine on hydrogen efficiently, reliably, and safely? Get an education.
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  #58  
Old 12-19-2007
D.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuze
Hydrogen does burn...its a fuel like any other...all you need is an ignition source and oxygen.
He mentioned nothing of having a way to read A/F ratios or anything. Just a ' run a line to the intake ' and used Nitrous as an example or mentioning.

Theres more to it then just ' running a line '..

Quote:
The problem is that just as with any other fuel you can't just randomly start feeding gases to the engine and expect it to work well. How much hydrogen should be flowing into the intake?
No clue. The question I would ask is ' how to meter it ' or hold a constant ratio for consumption.. how many parts hydrogen, how many air.. how much spark, how much timing.. Nothing was mentioned.. just running a line.. Didn't make any sense to me at all.

Quote:
How will you compensate for the demands at different engine speeds and loads? Will air or pure oxygen be used for the oxidizer? If pure oxygen, where will the oxygen compatible components be coming from? (Try pressurizing components meant for nitrous with pure oxygen...you won't even hear the boom that kills you) How will you control ignition timing? How will you be metering these gas flows? How will you compensate for intake temperature?
I forgot about the heat factor :)

Quote:
.. With such low ignition energy required, how will you prevent premature ignition and flashback from hot spots in the cylinders? Have you considered the fact that a wasted spark ignition system will cause premature ignition? How cold will the plugs be that you are using? How will you ensure proper ventilation of the crankcase considering the lower ignition energy of hydrogen and the possibility of ignition within the crankcase? Have you removed the catalytic converter or considered the additional NOx emissions from combustion of a hydrogen-air combination and their effect on a catalytic converter? How do you plan to drive this in a state like CA with strict emissions standards?
Again, more questions that are un-answered.

Quote:
Make hydrogen gas from water? Sure! Run an engine on hydrogen and air? Sure! Run an engine on hydrogen efficiently, reliably, and safely? Get an education.
I know hydrogen DOES have some explosive properties and shooting a compressed canister of it will cause detonation. Thats all I do know in these regards. :)
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  #59  
Old 12-19-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuze
If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't need to cut and paste that from wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

Like I said, all you can do is regurgitate information from the internet without understanding it. You have no idea what you are talking about.


.
everything else i said you dont believe so i had to prove it to you by using another source, i took a direct quote from wikipedia so you will get it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuze
Quote:I can cut and paste from wikipedia too:
Originally Posted by KoDaK's Physics book (wikipedia)
The term perpetual motion, taken literally, refers to movement that goes on forever..
well i see you can cut and copy, but why dont you copy and paste the rest of the story...
The term perpetual motion, taken literally, refers to movement that goes on forever. This is possible in the current theoretical understanding of physics as in Newton's First Law of Motion. HOWEVER, perpetual motion refers to a device or system that delivers MORE energy than is put into it.
now why dont you stop talking nonsense and go bother someone who actually doesnt know what they are talking about..
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  #60  
Old 12-19-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
He mentioned nothing of having a way to read A/F ratios or anything. Just a ' run a line to the intake ' and used Nitrous as an example or mentioning.

Theres more to it then just ' running a line '..
i said you need two engine controllers, they figure all that out...


Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
No clue. The question I would ask is ' how to meter it ' or hold a constant ratio for consumption.. how many parts hydrogen, how many air.. how much spark, how much timing.. Nothing was mentioned.. just running a line.. Didn't make any sense to me at all.
again the engine controllers...


Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
I know hydrogen DOES have some explosive properties and shooting a compressed canister of it will cause detonation. Thats all I do know in these regards. :)
you cant read?
There are materials call Hydrides that absorb Hydrogen like a sponge absorbs water. Typically, the tanks are filled with granulated Hydrides, and Hydrogen is pressurized into the material. Hydrides have many advantages over liquid & gas. One is that the density of the Hydrogen stored in the Hydride can be GREATER than that of liquid Hydrogen. This translates directly into smaller and fewer storage tanks.
Once the Hydride is "charged" with Hydrogen, the Hydrogen becomes chemically bonded to the chemical. Even opening the tank, or cutting it in half will not release the Hydrogen gas. In addition, you could even fire incendiary bullets through the tank and the Hydride would only smolder like a cigarette. It is in fact, a safer storage system than your Gasoline tank is.
Then how do you get the Hydrogen back out? To release the Hydrogen gas from the Hydride, it simply needs to be heated. This is either done electrically, using the waste exhaust heat, or using the waste radiator coolant heat.






Quote:
Originally Posted by fuze
Hydrogen does burn...its a fuel like any other...all you need is an ignition source and oxygen. The problem is that just as with any other fuel you can't just randomly start feeding gases to the engine and expect it to work well. How much hydrogen should be flowing into the intake? How will you compensate for the demands at different engine speeds and loads? Will air or pure oxygen be used for the oxidizer? If pure oxygen, where will the oxygen compatible components be coming from? (Try pressurizing components meant for nitrous with pure oxygen...you won't even hear the boom that kills you) How will you control ignition timing? How will you be metering these gas flows? How will you compensate for intake temperature? With such low ignition energy required, how will you prevent premature ignition and flashback from hot spots in the cylinders? Have you considered the fact that a wasted spark ignition system will cause premature ignition? How cold will the plugs be that you are using? How will you ensure proper ventilation of the crankcase considering the lower ignition energy of hydrogen and the possibility of ignition within the crankcase? Have you removed the catalytic converter or considered the additional NOx emissions from combustion of a hydrogen-air combination and their effect on a catalytic converter? How do you plan to drive this in a state like CA with strict emissions standards?

Make hydrogen gas from water? Sure! Run an engine on hydrogen and air? Sure! Run an engine on hydrogen efficiently, reliably, and safely? Get an education.
your almost not even worth replying to... EVERYTHING in your vehicle remains the same with the exception of two engine controllers, everything is already figured for us... and your last sentence in your first paragraph states, how do you plan to drive this in a state like CA with strict emissions standards? with that said, i answer by saying THERE IS NO EMMISSIONS EXCEPT TINY AMOUNTS OF NITROGEN OXIDES AND WATER, how would strict emmissions standards effect any of this? its WAY cleaner than any other vehicle on the road...





Quote:
Originally Posted by graniteguy
My forklift runs on propane. Does it go in as air or a liquid?
well hell if i know, its your forklift, but it wouldnt go in as air, it goes in as gas... but propane isnt hydrogen so i really dont care...




Quote:
Originally Posted by graniteguy
......someone beat KoDaK to the patent office.
actually no, not really.. the way my generator is made and the way the electrodes are made it would be a whole new hydrogen generator, requiring a new patent to cover the new changes...


Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
Heres *my* question.

YOU have seen me around these forums, you might know what I have done and haven't done.. Others can vouch that I might have a clue..

So.. If we just run a line to the intake of one of our engines.. Send hydrogen into it.. That quite ' do-able '. I won't argue that such cannot be done.

We take out the fuel injectors and weld the intake ports for such closed.. all fine and dandy.

We now have spark and hydrogen.

Hydrogen ( from what I remember.. like 20+ years back in time.. ) doesn't really burn. It has a form of fusion. Some of the by-products are Helium, Raw energy and Neutrino ( actually that happens in how a star like our sun burns, were alledgedly doing the same here but on a VERY small scale in comparrison ).

I run a LOT of Nitrous in my mills. My **** is bottle fed like none other on this site. All my vehicles have been. I know what oxidation looks like and its effects. I know a common cylinder wall can only take so much..

My question, knowing the above..

If such a process was to happen with just spark and hydrogen.. it ' wont '. Oxygen and carbons of some form MUST come into the mixture somewhere. That whole theory of just piping hydrogen into some intake manifold is pure rubbish. By removing the timing and measurement of fuel, how would an engine run and stay within means of stability? No way to meter air rate, comsumption.. flow..

I see NO possibilities with what hes offering. I want to say its laughable, but I know it IS possible.
you dont have pure hydrogen, its part hydrogen part oxygen, it burns very well, and doesnt cause all that crap you stated above... you dont remove or do anything to the engine except add a part in the air intake from which you add the hydrogen/oxygen... you get engine controllers to monitor the measurments, fuel to air ratio, and so on... its fairly simple...




Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
( Cracks nuckles ) Time to get serious...



I have to think back over 20 years here ( Yeah I'm old ) but if memory serves me correctly, theres gasses, solids and liquids as forms of ' matter '. They each have distinguishing properties thus, they are classified in said groups.

So.. you want me to believe theres a difference in one gaseous state to the next?
no i didnt say that, you cant take say helium compared to mapp gas... they are completly different but still gases...


Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
http://www.propanecarbs.com/

"The average cost of our most popular kits is between $130.00 and $250.00. For exact prices and product availability, please call toll free 1-877-425-8383"

I'm getting better then the yellow pages
hydrogen and propane are not the same and thus cannot be used as exchangable gases, it may work for a while but while most likely ruin your engine very quick...


Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
What risk? You said compressed hydrogen could be SHOT and there would be no worries...
yes, you did not read what i said.. the worry is what might happen in your engine, it wont blow like a bomb but you will ruin your engine because the gases are not the same, they have different burn rates, different air to fuel ratio, different compression rates, shall i go on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
You want to re-state that whole ' you could shoot.. ' thingi again?
want me to re-state what i just said above?



Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
A 10lb bottle.

I use Argon with my mig. I have a 10lb bottle for it. A mig is makeing LESS energy then an engine would in order to move a 3000lb vehicle ( goign with a light weight on nsaid behicle ).

Your telling me a 10lb bottle of hydrogen could make a car/truck or 3000lb vehicle go 300 miles?

I'm not calling B.S. , I'm SCREAMING it!
no, 4 10lb bottles will go 300 miles, but you can store a lot more hydrogen in a bottle that size than argon... it can compress more



Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
No, you can't. There are already laws that state where you can put ' secondairy fuels ' on a vehicle. I knnow all too well about Nitrous laws for Canada, NNY, PA, And ohio.. I have the receipts from the citations around here somewhere to prove it.
there is a huge difference from nos to a hydrogen tank thats safer than your regular gas tank.. and its not a secondary fuel, its a primary, your existing gas is your secondary fuel.. there might be a few laws but i dont think they will mind much since they cant blow up, ant its safer than what you got now..



Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
I'm with that other cat.. You took some time off, but didn't do the work. I'm not even going to try and talk about hydrogen as YOU probably know more then I do. I'll give you that on a wholesale basis. What your failing to understand is theres more to the equasion then you have even touched the surface on.
believe what you want, like i said before im just telling you, you dont have to believe me, but just dont argue with me if you dont...



Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
7-10 grand. GREAT! And just WHICH state do you plan on driving a converted vehicle on their roads?
well to tell you the truth i havnt looked far into that yet, good question though.. i highly doubt they will have a big proble with it tho because they already have cars that have hydrogen on board and you still have a fully functional gasoline fuel system...










Quote:
Originally Posted by D.
Umm... WRONG!

Compressed hydrogen meeting an API round.. it WON'T go ' boom '?

I would STRONGLY beg to differ.
ok let me quote something from nuclear united, the company that have made these hydrogen tanks..
"There are materials call Hydrides that absorb Hydrogen like a sponge absorbs water. Typically, the tanks are filled with granulated Hydrides, and Hydrogen is pressurized into the material. Hydrides have many advantages over liquid & gas. One is that the density of the Hydrogen stored in the Hydride can be GREATER than that of liquid Hydrogen. This translates directly into smaller and fewer storage tanks.
Once the Hydride is "charged" with Hydrogen, the Hydrogen becomes chemically bonded to the chemical. Even opening the tank, or cutting it in half will not release the Hydrogen gas. In addition, you could even fire incendiary bullets through the tank and the Hydride would only smolder like a cigarette. It is in fact, a safer storage system than your Gasoline tank is.
Then how do you get the Hydrogen back out? To release the Hydrogen gas from the Hydride, it simply needs to be heated. This is either done electrically, using the waste exhaust heat, or using the waste radiator coolant heat.





Quote:
Originally Posted by IN2 FX4
I was giving you the benefit of a doubt. Now I know what you think you can do.

I guess the hydrogen generation is part of the perpetual motion machine because you keep talking about them together. Hypothetically, I am going to go along with your ultimate idea for now, not that I think it is possible.

I do have a couple questions about the hydrogen generation from water. I am sure you know that when you produce hydrogen from water you also produce oxygen. How do you plan to separate the hydrogen and oxygen? Once separated, are you just going to vent the oxygen to the atmosphere? Are you familiar with the problem hydrogen has with embrittling many metals due to the migration of hydrogen into the metal? How have you addressed that problem or do you need to?
after making the hydrogen and oxygen you do not separate them, there is no need to do so to run it in a vehicle, as far as i know and by the testing done by nuclear united there isnt any embrittling to the metal in the engine or tanks or any metal period by running it in a vehicle.
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  #61  
Old 12-19-2007
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Dude, you really have no clue.
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  #62  
Old 12-19-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoDaK
after making the hydrogen and oxygen you do not separate them, there is no need to do so to run it in a vehicle, as far as i know and by the testing done by nuclear united there isnt any embrittling to the metal in the engine or tanks or any metal period by running it in a vehicle.
If you are storing hydrogen and oxygen in the same tank, please let me know where you are going to be. I don't want to be any where near you when are doing this. That is a bomb waiting for an excuse to blow.

Don't tell me you think you can shoot a tank filled with that mixture without an explosion. That is the perfect ratio of fuel and oxygen to light off. I don't know if you are aware but hydrogen will burn or explode at a wider ratio of fuel/oxidizer than any other gas.
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  #63  
Old 12-19-2007
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it is a proven fact that it will NOT blown up when shot/cut/drop/ect... i dont get why you cant understand that... i dont care what you think, it wont blow..
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  #64  
Old 12-19-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuze
Dude, you really have no clue.
thats all you have to say... quess that means you still dont understand but you know your wrong...
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  #65  
Old 12-19-2007
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This hydrogen and oxygen in the same tank. Are you inferring that the nuclear guys are holding both in the same tank or is this the the method that you will pursue for your patented system?

It's hard to figure out whos doing what and who is planning what. Clarification please.
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  #66  
Old 12-19-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoDaK
thats all you have to say... quess that means you still dont understand but you know your wrong...
No, it means it does no good to explain anything to you. You can't answer my questions...you just continue avoiding proving a basic understanding of anything academic.

Tell ya what, here's a problem for you...a simplified example of the type of work required for something like this. I don't expect you to be able to solve it, I'm just letting you prove you have no clue because you will avoid answering it like everything else...

Let's assume that you have a 3.0L 6 cylinder engine that has a volumetric efficiency of 90%. Lets say that you are going to run it on hydrogen gas and air that is 20% oxygen and 80% nitrogen by volume and the atmosphere is at standard temperature and pressure. Let's say that your engine will run at an air to fuel ratio of 70:1 by mass. Neglecting all other factors, how much hydrogen gas, in kilograms and liters per minute, will be required to maintain the given air-to fuel ratio at 2750 rpm? How much air, in kilograms and liters per minute? Assuming no reaction with the nitrogen in the air takes place during combustion, how much water will be produced by the engine, in kilograms per minute?

A very simple question...and I think everybody on here could agree that is a question you should be able to solve. So, if you actually understand what you claim to...here's a chance to help prove it.
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  #67  
Old 12-20-2007
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there is a guy on fordtruckenthusiasts who claims he gain 5 mpg on the 4 lane with a hydrogen system on his power stroke. is injects hydrogen like a propane system untl he wants more then it gives him more.

a few guys on there were gunna build thier own kit and said the parts were like $100 at the local mcparts stores.
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  #68  
Old 12-20-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoDaK
and he seriously has a 10,000 gallon tank? lol i wouldnt want to live within 100 miles off that guy, thats just a huge bomd waiting to blow...the military made or still makes hydrogen bombs... and thats all he made.. ...
hydrogen bombs dont work with just hydrogen and an ignition source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teller%E2%80%93Ulam_design
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  #69  
Old 12-20-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoDaK
it is a proven fact that it will NOT blown up when shot/cut/drop/ect... i dont get why you cant understand that... i dont care what you think, it wont blow..
You have your facts very confused. I am a chemist and work in the aerospace industry and I do understand chemical reactions. That combination of gasses needs very little energy to initiate a very aggressive reaction. I am sure you have heard of the Hindenburg disaster. Because it contained pure hydrogen, it was more of a fast burn than an explosion. If it would have contained hydrogen and oxygen in the same container, it would have been difficult to find any pieces left after the explosion. Of course, it would not have been able to fly either.

I challenge you to reference anything that considers a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen a safe combination for storage in a tank.

I also challenge you to take a serious look at hydrogen embrittlement of certain metals. This is something that is a problem any engineer must overcome when dealing with hydrogen. The reason you have not seen any problems with hydrogen embrittlement in the nuclear united tests is because they addressed the issue and selected the proper materials.

These challenges have nothing to do with me wanting to show you are wrong, they are to make you aware of some things that you seem to be overlooking.
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  #70  
Old 12-20-2007
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im not trying to do most of what you say.. i made a hydrogen generator... thats it, i would buy everything else from united nuclear, they figure everything out for your vehicle, them or the mechanic you have install the kit.. all im doing is making hydrogen, the rest isnt my problem, im telling you this is what is and this is how it is, not saying that im going to do or make anything else..


Tell ya what, here's a problem for you...a simplified example of the type of work required for something like this. I don't expect you to be able to solve it, I'm just letting you prove you have no clue because you will avoid answering it like everything else...

i dont see how i avoided answering anything, but im not solving anything, i made a hydrogen generator, it may be better than current generators, that i dont know yet, really i have no clue about most of the kit, but i know what everything is and what it does, im not doing any of the figuring for anything except for my hydrogen generator.. i really could care less about the figures on anything else, thats for someone else to figure out and for the engine controllers to process...i simply told you what is, if you dont like it, go pay for your gas..


Let's assume that you have a 3.0L 6 cylinder engine that has a volumetric efficiency of 90%. Lets say that you are going to run it on hydrogen gas and air that is 20% oxygen and 80% nitrogen by volume and the atmosphere is at standard temperature and pressure. Let's say that your engine will run at an air to fuel ratio of 70:1 by mass. Neglecting all other factors, how much hydrogen gas, in kilograms and liters per minute, will be required to maintain the given air-to fuel ratio at 2750 rpm? How much air, in kilograms and liters per minute? Assuming no reaction with the nitrogen in the air takes place during combustion, how much water will be produced by the engine, in kilograms per minute?

f if i know, like i said i dont care, united nuclear already figured that out, thats how they came up with you can get 350 miles per fill.. i dont know and i dont care what the figures are, i do know its way cheaper than gas.. i dont care what goes on with my engine, as long as it works and gets me the 350 miles with no problems...

A very simple question...and I think everybody on here could agree that is a question you should be able to solve. So, if you actually understand what you claim to...here's a chance to help prove it.

ok... again, im not solving anything but what my generator can do.. (which i havnt done yet) i understant whats all involved and how things work but im not gunna figure anything else out because i dont need to.. its already figured, you just gotta buy it when its available, im just not gunna buy the generator because in already have one.. im not saying im making any of that other crap, ive simply made a hydrogen generator, if its better than the generators available now, then thats great for me but if not its not then i guess i can buy the current generator.. let me say it one more time, im just telling you what you can do, thats it.. i also just threw in i may have made a more efficient way to make hydrogen but im not sure yet... i dont see why you argue about everything since its already been done and proven..
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  #71  
Old 12-20-2007
graniteguy's Avatar
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We don't want to see you storing oxygen and hydrogen in the same tank. Thats a headline I don't care to read.
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  #72  
Old 12-20-2007
KoDaK's Avatar
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im not gunna store it unless i buy the tank from united nuclear and they say its completely safe.. with what they say now it will not blow up..
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  #73  
Old 12-20-2007
graniteguy's Avatar
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Do you know if thats how they store it- together in one tank? Thats the one part that is confusing me.
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  #74  
Old 12-20-2007
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoDaK
im not trying to do most of what you say.. i made a hydrogen generator... thats it, i would buy everything else from united nuclear, they figure everything out for your vehicle, them or the mechanic you have install the kit.. all im doing is making hydrogen, the rest isnt my problem, im telling you this is what is and this is how it is, not saying that im going to do or make anything else..


Tell ya what, here's a problem for you...a simplified example of the type of work required for something like this. I don't expect you to be able to solve it, I'm just letting you prove you have no clue because you will avoid answering it like everything else...

i dont see how i avoided answering anything, but im not solving anything, i made a hydrogen generator, it may be better than current generators, that i dont know yet, really i have no clue about most of the kit, but i know what everything is and what it does, im not doing any of the figuring for anything except for my hydrogen generator.. i really could care less about the figures on anything else, thats for someone else to figure out and for the engine controllers to process...i simply told you what is, if you dont like it, go pay for your gas..


Let's assume that you have a 3.0L 6 cylinder engine that has a volumetric efficiency of 90%. Lets say that you are going to run it on hydrogen gas and air that is 20% oxygen and 80% nitrogen by volume and the atmosphere is at standard temperature and pressure. Let's say that your engine will run at an air to fuel ratio of 70:1 by mass. Neglecting all other factors, how much hydrogen gas, in kilograms and liters per minute, will be required to maintain the given air-to fuel ratio at 2750 rpm? How much air, in kilograms and liters per minute? Assuming no reaction with the nitrogen in the air takes place during combustion, how much water will be produced by the engine, in kilograms per minute?

f if i know, like i said i dont care, united nuclear already figured that out, thats how they came up with you can get 350 miles per fill.. i dont know and i dont care what the figures are, i do know its way cheaper than gas.. i dont care what goes on with my engine, as long as it works and gets me the 350 miles with no problems...

A very simple question...and I think everybody on here could agree that is a question you should be able to solve. So, if you actually understand what you claim to...here's a chance to help prove it.

ok... again, im not solving anything but what my generator can do.. (which i havnt done yet) i understant whats all involved and how things work but im not gunna figure anything else out because i dont need to.. its already figured, you just gotta buy it when its available, im just not gunna buy the generator because in already have one.. im not saying im making any of that other crap, ive simply made a hydrogen generator, if its better than the generators available now, then thats great for me but if not its not then i guess i can buy the current generator.. let me say it one more time, im just telling you what you can do, thats it.. i also just threw in i may have made a more efficient way to make hydrogen but im not sure yet... i dont see why you argue about everything since its already been done and proven..
Yep, that's about what I expected to get. Thanks for proving you don't understand the basics of any of this.
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  #75  
Old 12-21-2007
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Taylorsville Ky
Posts: 289
your not going to find a natural asperated engine that has much more than 70% volumetric efficiency.
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