5.4L DOHC 4v Project! - Page 9 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


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  #201  
Old 03-03-2009
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why the stak3 over atlas 4?
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  #202  
Old 03-03-2009
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I dont see where the atlas 4 will bolt to a 4r100 trans, its even more, more people have them, I like the STAK for some reason. lol The site seems to give more information on their site which i like.
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  #203  
Old 03-03-2009
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yea i like how they walk you through all the components and how they are made and such. well kool....enough questions. ill go back to sitting back and watching. good luck!
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  #204  
Old 03-04-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03bamaGT View Post
It would have been easier to 'cross breed' a LSx motor and the wanted HP would have been attained much easier. Smooth exhaust, intake, and a tune would get 400/400 BHP easy.

I have to ask(I dunno if you have answered, don't wanna read 8 pages), why a 5.4 4V motor?? There really aren't any gains over the 4.6 4V and parts are somewhat cheaper and more attainable. Was it just what was available or was it your first choice??
is this a serious post? if so, i can understand your views, apparently you are lazy and have no sense of adventure. you speak of the chevy drive train being easier to install... that may be so, but he doesnt want to mark his territory everywhere he goes and doesnt want the rocker arms dumping needle bearings into the oil pan...

no gains??? why not? seriously, i want to hear your logic. if there arent any gains, then why did ford even produce the 5.4 dohc? If there arent any gains, then why is a 5.4dohc in the gt500 instead of the good ole cobra 4.6dohc? Why does the ford GT have a 5.4l dohc power plant? No gains? I dont want to spill my logic on this subject until you have enough yourself to convince me he is wasting his time with this swap...
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  #205  
Old 03-04-2009
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Pretty sure the engine you have there is not the same code as the GT500 or GT engine...same bore and stroke but I am guessing different heads, intake, etc?? Does it have any forged internals etc?

That is why I asked was this his first choice or what was available. I personally would have gone 4.6 Cobra 4V over the Navi 5.4 but thats my opinion.

As for the LSx swap...I was just stating that it would be easier, not to go that route instead. Never heard of many LSx engines have problems either. They make tons of power with very little money and are able to hold that power pretty reliably.
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  #206  
Old 03-04-2009
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Originally Posted by 03bamaGT View Post
Pretty sure the engine you have there is not the same code as the GT500 or GT engine...same bore and stroke but I am guessing different heads, intake, etc?? Does it have any forged internals etc?

That is why I asked was this his first choice or what was available. I personally would have gone 4.6 Cobra 4V over the Navi 5.4 but thats my opinion.

As for the LSx swap...I was just stating that it would be easier, not to go that route instead. Never heard of many LSx engines have problems either. They make tons of power with very little money and are able to hold that power pretty reliably.
The navi engine is a pretty sought for motor, just doesnt fit easily into many things. It makes good hp numbers, but for what Beard is needing, torque is where its at. The lsx engines are pretty stout engines, but i have had my go-rounds with them and they are not anything i would want to put into something i cared about. The lsx motors arent cheap, nor are the cheap to work on!

The 4.6dohc cobra would be a cool swap, but he wants an auto tranny that he can put a beefy t-case behind, the cobra ecm is for a manual tranny, plus the cobra drivetrains are slim pickins. Dont take my comments personal.
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  #207  
Old 03-04-2009
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I still would vote 5.4 DOHC over a 4.6 any day. How does the saying go....."There is no replacement for displacement"? Anyhow, here is the info I dug up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Car Craft
Out of the entire modular engine family, the 5.4L GT mainly resembles the 5.4L Navigator engine with the same bore, stroke, forged crankshaft, and four-cam layout. However, that's where the family resemblance ends. Unlike the cast-iron Navigator engine, the GT features an all-aluminum block that utilizes forged H-beam connecting rods, which are specifically built for Ford by Manley with a set of ARP bolts, and even comes equipped with boost-friendly forged 8.4:1 compression Mahle pistons. Up top, the heads feature four valves per cylinder with two cams per bank and are a derivative of the famed '00 Cobra R Mustang heads that have been massaged for better airflow. To truly appreciate that this isn't just a Navigator engine with a blower, you must pay close attention to the factory dry-sump oiling system, twin injectors per cylinder, the ability to meet all current emissions and durability standards, as well as the reliable 550hp--all with a factory warranty. If you do that, then you can begin to see how amazing this powerplant really is. Ford was the first to jump heavily into the technology bin with its production engines. This is one giant leap of a performance package that all gearheads can appreciate.
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  #208  
Old 03-04-2009
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Pshh....comments, personal??? Thanks for the welcome back Nick...haha.
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  #209  
Old 03-04-2009
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Originally Posted by 0RangerEdge2 View Post
I still would vote 5.4 DOHC over a 4.6 any day. How does the saying go....."There is no replacement for displacement"? Anyhow, here is the info I dug up.
that being said, the navi engine is a 2v 5.4 with 4v heads, but the heads arent the same as the 4.6 heads...


Quote:
4v head info.

I'm not sure who wrote all this, but it's stuffed with info on all the different types of 4v heads. Don't have to read it all if you don't, I didn't, I just found the section for the heads I have and or want!

4V Head Info
______________________________ __________
B/Swirl Port: (93-97 Lincoln Mark VIII, pre 99 Lincoln Continental, 96-98 Cobra).
The first and only production Ford head with two (square primary, round secondary) intake ports per cylinder, these swirl port castings arrived first in the ’93 Lincoln Mark VIII. Aptly named, due to the way they promoted the incoming air to swirl into the combustion chambers, much like water running down the drain of a once full sink.
Through the years these heads have proven themselves to be excellent high rpm (8000rpm+) performers—mainly in power adder applications--since their tremendous combined intake port cross sectional area and volume (when combined, a full 55cc more than any other 4.6L head design) provide for exceptional power production in the upper regions of the tach. Ironically, it’s those same big, beautiful, twin ports that also prove to be the B head’s largest inherent design flaw. The extra intake port size has a tendency to kill low/mid rpm intake port velocity and power production—hence the use of Ford’s first IMRC (intake manifold runner control) intake on the 96-98 Cobra. By allowing air to reach only one of a B head’s twin intake valves, velocity, and therefore low/mid range torque production was restored in situations under 3250rpm. Later head designs are clearly superior in this regard, which happens to be the one of the most important considerations for those wanting a stout street motor.
There is also some controversy over the single fuel injector/dual intake port setup. Some claim insufficient air/fuel mixing because of the compromised design, however, others contest that the ability to make 1000+rwhp with only minor porting and some form of power adder is testament to the contrary. Whoever you believe, there is little doubt that even after as little as 8,000 miles, carbon and other deposits tend to form on the secondary ports, causing a major airflow impedance, as there is no fuel present to clean them. B heads feature a somewhat small stock exhaust port that really hinders flow in power adder applications. Major gains from porting come with a quality valve job, some pocket and lots of exhaust work. There really isn’t a lot of material to remove from the intake ports themselves.
The Bottom Line: B heads aren’t the best choice for a naturally aspirated street motor. In order to really shine, they need to be paired with a power adder and a short block that can sustain high horsepower and rpm levels. These, the oldest heads, may still be a great choice for full race applications.

Stock Intake Choices: ‘93-‘97 Lincoln Mark VIII, ‘96-‘98 Cobra.
Aftermarket/Modified Stock Intake Choices: HCI, SSR, PHP.
B head dimensions: Combustion Chamber: 52cc, Intake Port Vol.: 107cc primary (square), 115cc secondary (round). Intake Port Entrance: 1.500x1.300” primary (square), 1.660x1.400” secondary (round), Valves: 37mm Int., 30mm Exh.

C/Tumble Port: (99/01 Cobra, 99 Lincoln Continental).
These second-generation Ford DOHC heads feature a single intake port per cylinder with a smaller cross sectional area that boosts incoming airflow velocity compared to previous years. To understand how C heads earn their “tumble port” designation, try to imagine an Olympic high diver doing repetitive front somersaults before cleanly entering a pool at the bottom. This controlled tumble allows for better air/fuel mixing than in the earlier swirl port heads. The new port design allowed for both substantial increases in midrange torque, and superior horsepower production under 8000rpm when compared with earlier heads. Combustion chamber size is also up 2cc.
The design downfall of C heads, and their larger (5.4L Navigator) cousins, is the relatively flat floor and utter lack of a short turn radius in the throat of the intake port. As such, the incoming air tends to overshoot the valves, making the port think the valves are smaller than they actually are. Some ‘99/’01 Cobra owners reported a “ticking/pinging” noise coming from the drivers side head of their cars. This is due to insufficient cooling around the #6, 7, and 8 cylinders that allowed the valves to overheat and therefore seat improperly. Ford remedied the situation by issuing a TSB to remove and replace the affected heads with a version that featured altered coolant flow.
C heads feature a small exhaust port much like Ford’s earlier swirl port heads, but unlike in B heads, both the intake (throat region) and exhaust ports can see extensive porting work. However, removing too much material from the intake port (mouth region) of a tumble port head will kill velocity very quickly, so make sure your head porter knows what they are doing!
The Bottom Line: C heads remain a viable performance upgrade for those looking for more punch in their street driven 4.6L four valve, without having to pay new part prices for the ’03 DOHC or FR500 versions. The increased midrange torque production and greater overall area under the power curve (when compared to swirl port heads) will enhance the performance of a street/strip driven (8,000rpm and under) modular regardless of application.

Stock Intake Choices: ‘99/’01 Cobra, ‘03/’04 Mach 1 & Aviator, ’03 Marauder, FR500.
Aftermarket /Modified Stock Intake Choices: Al Papitto short runner/ported ‘99/’01 Cobra, MP carb/Sullivan intake, FR500, Aviator
C head dimensions: Combustion Chamber: 54cc, Intake Port Vol.: 177cc, Intake Port Entrance: 1.960”x1.350”, Valves: 37mm Int., 30mm Exh.

Navigator: (98+ Lincoln Navigator)
These 5.4L DOHC heads feature essentially the same intake port design as C heads, however they have a much larger intake port volume than 4.6L castings. Despite the fact these heads feature a relatively small exhaust port, the extra intake port volume could be very beneficial in helping fill a motor of greater displacement—think 5.4L. Expect slightly better midrange torque, and sub 8000rpm horsepower production than even C heads, however the larger intake port size leaves a slim selection of intakes to choose from when utilized on a 4.6L block. Forced induction fans take note, Navigator exhaust ports feature a thicker exhaust divider (while keeping the same overall exhaust port size as B,C, and FR500 heads) that allows coolant to circulate through this vital area. Conversely however, the larger divider can also hurt flow by utilizing additional space in the port.
The real downside to Navigator heads, when used on a 4.6L based motor, is the severe limitation they impose on intake selection. The physically larger 5.4L heads don’t leave a lot of room (when installed on a 4.6L block) between them for an intake plenum to sit—though they do bolt right up. Remember that since Navigator intake ports are essentially clones of those of C heads (just on a larger scale), they too suffer from the same intake port flaws that plague the earlier tumble port design--no short turn or floor in the throat of the intake port.
The Bottom Line: The extra port volume the Navi’s possess could be very beneficial in filling a motor with greater than 281 cubic inches of displacement, or in high rpm N/A street/strip or boosted combinations. Fans of boost should remember the cooled exhaust port divider. Lack of intake availability is the real downfall of this otherwise wonderful casting.

Stock Intake Choices: None (4.6L), 98+ Navigator (5.4L)
Aftermarket/Modified Stock Intake Choices: Al Papitto short runner 99 Cobra (4.6L), sheet metal
Navigator head dimensions: Combustion Chamber: 53cc, Intake Port Vol.: 184cc, Intake Port Entrance: 2.290”x1.400”, Valves: 37mm Int., 30mm Exh.

’00 Cobra R: (’00 Cobra R)
Cobra R heads are bar none the best Modular heads available today. However, their extremely scare supply makes them both ridiculously hard to find, and unbelievably expensive.
Initial performance results are understandably hard to obtain, however Al Papitto reports that with only 25hrs of port work into the his new ‘00R heads, they have already eclipsed the performance of his old Navigator heads with months of labor in them. These heads feature larger intake and exhaust ports, +1mm larger exhaust valves, and a dry exhaust port divider. Cobra R heads also require the use of a specific valvetrain not shared with any other modular application due mainly to their overall physically larger size. Al also claims R heads have too much port volume for a street/strip 4.6L application; only consider them with a larger 5.4L motor or a serious 4.6L race application paired with some form of power adder.
The Bottom Line: The best heads you can or can’t find for a Modular four valve motor.
You are as likely to come across a set of these Modular “Godfather” heads as you are to be Brittany Spears’ next uterus masseuse. Though based on their performance abilities, you may want to start saving, just in case…
Stock Intake Choices: None (4.6L), ’00 Cobra R (5.4L)
Aftermarket/Modified Stock Intake Choices: Sheet metal
’00 Cobra R head dimensions: Combustion Chamber: N/A , Intake Port Vol.: N/A , Intake Port Entrance: 2.370”x1.300”, Valves: 37mm Int. 31mm Exh.
Stock Intake Choices: ‘00R
Aftermarket Intake Choices: Sheetmetal.
Quote:
FR500: (FRPP)
The sole “aftermarket” offering of the bunch, these high flow heads feature a modified C head intake port combined with the smallest port volume of the group—it seems Ford meant to design these heads for high performance naturally aspirated applications. With the same small standard exhaust port as most other DOHC heads you will still have to remove a decent amount of material from the exhaust ports. Port entrance shape/size remains identical to C heads so finding an intake isn’t hard. These heads are capable of producing power beyond 8000rpm, where earlier versions of the tumble port castings begin to lose their luster. FR500 heads are prone to the #6,7, and 8 cylinder cooling problems as well. Major intake port differences between these and earlier tumble port heads include a raised intake port roof, and a real short turn radius that better directs the incoming air into the combustion chamber; not over the valves like in earlier versions of tumble port heads. These heads also feature a dry divider in the exhaust port, which allows for greater flow, but also higher temperatures. Though improved, the heads can still use some TLC from a quality porter to smooth the roughly finished and newly implemented short turn radius, and the standard exhaust treatment.
The Bottom Line: Outstanding performance heads, with exceptional low and mid lift flow capability. The FR500s only real fault is that the newer ’03 DOHC heads provide near identical performance capability (much better on the exhaust side) paired with a cost differential that is approximately two-thirds less than the FRPP castings. Still a great choice for any application, the heads readily pair to a wide variety of stock and aftermarket intakes.
Stock Intake Choices: ‘99/’01 Cobra, ‘03/’04 Mach 1 & Aviator, ’03 Marauder, FR500.
Aftermarket /Modified Stock Intake Choices: Al Papitto short runner/ported ‘99/’01 Cobra, MP/Sullivan carb intake, FR500, Aviator.
FR500 head dimensions: Combustion Chamber: 53cc, Intake Port Vol.: 160cc, Intake Port Entrance: 1.960”x1.350”, Valves: 37mm Int., 30mm Exh.


‘03 DOHC head: (‘03+ Aviator, Marauder, Cobra, Mach 1, Australian Boss 260/290)
Featuring a nearly identical (though 17cc larger in volume due to the fact that they are also used on the much larger Australian Boss 260/290 5.4L DOHCs) intake port to the FR500 head, but combining it with a newly designed, larger and more rectangular exhaust port, these may be the best all around DOHC Ford heads ever manufactured. The improvements made to the intake port shape over previous years include a raised port roof and the introduction of a short radius turn in the throat of the intake port that helps assure the incoming air charge finds the combustion chamber. For those with a forced induction street/strip motor, these are without question the best heads available, and as with the FR500s, they should produce great power up to and beyond 8000rpm regardless of application. ’03 DOHC heads also feature higher quality head castings from the supplier, which is at least partially responsible for the modest increase in flow vs. earlier castings--chalk that up to Ford’s revised quality control standards.
Early runs of the ’03 DOHC head fell victim to the same #6,7,8 cylinder coolant flow problems as earlier tumble port castings. In mid ’03 Ford made a running revision to the ’03 DOHC heads that allowed for more coolant to circulate through the affected areas. A blue mark on the driver’s side head indicates an updated casting, and there are no additional revisions to the ’04 version of this design.
The Bottom Line: On all accounts these are the best modular four valve heads currently available. They combine the exceptional flow of a slightly larger FR500 intake port with a gigantic new rectangular exhaust port.

Stock Intake Choices: ‘99/’01 Cobra, ‘03/’04 Mach 1 & Aviator, ’03 Marauder, FR500.
Aftermarket/Modified Stock Intake Choices: Al Papitto short runner/ported ‘99/’01 Cobra, MP/Sullivan carb intake, FR500, Aviator.
’03 DOHC head dimensions: Combustion Chamber: 52cc, Intake Port Vol.: 177cc, Intake Port Entrance: 1.960”x1.350”, Valves: 37mm Int., 30mm Exh.


In Conclusion
Our panel of experts surmised that aside from the nearly unobtainable ‘00R heads, the ’03 DOHC heads are without question the right choice for your Modular four-valve performance application . The combination of a slightly larger FR500 intake port and modified throat region, coupled with a new larger rectangular exhaust port, and a relatively low price (due to it’s widespread use in the Ford organization) makes the ’03 DOHC casting the current head stud of Ford’s Modular stable.
After porting, the relatively small stock valves/seats become the most serious flow limitation; as such aftermarket replacements should be a serious consideration for those looking to squeeze every last drop of performance from their DOHC heads.
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  #210  
Old 03-04-2009
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Quote:
5.4L DOHC
Twin port heads have never been offered for the 5.4L engines. You are limited to the Navigator heads unless you come across a set of Cobra R heads (you might have a better shot at hitting the lottery). Being limited to the Navigator heads is not a bad thing as these heads flow a large amount of air. Port and polish these heads and you will see port flow in excess 325 cfm. There is no horsepower to be gained by trying to run Cobra heads, the Navigator heads with their large ports allows the use of much larger intake runners.
Twin Port Head
Dimensions (Intake)
Square Port 32mm x 40mm
Oval Port 36mm x 44mm

1999 & Later 4.6L Tumble Port (Intake)
50mm x 39mm

1998 & Later 5.4L Tumble Port (Intake)
59mm x 39mm


All DOHC Exhaust Ports
48mm x 25mm
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  #211  
Old 03-04-2009
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damn nick nice info
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  #212  
Old 03-04-2009
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Originally Posted by Downey View Post
damn nick nice info
i used to build cobras and lightnings. had to know my stuff and have resources...
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  #213  
Old 03-04-2009
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damn nick nice info
which is why he is doing this and not me!
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  #214  
Old 03-04-2009
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damn stak3, baller! Yer truck is gona be so rad
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  #215  
Old 03-06-2009
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your going for a 5.4 and all i want is a 5.0 lol good luck man your truck is going to be the god of all rangers! lol
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  #216  
Old 03-06-2009
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I just got to NC! unloading the Navi soon. :) Maybe I'll get a few pics before the sun goes down.
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  #217  
Old 03-06-2009
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so are you leaving the navi and your truck there or what?
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  #218  
Old 03-06-2009
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Originally Posted by shadow905 View Post
so are you leaving the navi and your truck there or what?
He is just dropping off the Navi, the swap wont be happening until late summer or early fall.
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  #219  
Old 03-06-2009
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yeah just getting the engine etc out and ready to go when the time comes.
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  #220  
Old 03-07-2009
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Engine is out, trans is out. everything. Gotta go home later today though.
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  #221  
Old 03-07-2009
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PIcs! So this is the Navi chopped for the trip.






Off comes the body



Its a small engine!


Crappy pic but all that has to fit in the engine bay!
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  #222  
Old 03-07-2009
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Nice Zach. Looks like Nick has some work cut out for him. Is he going to rebuild it first or just clean it up?
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  #223  
Old 03-07-2009
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Sweet, any sign of cracks? or why its leaking?
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  #224  
Old 03-08-2009
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Looks like fun :-)
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  #225  
Old 03-11-2009
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That truck is gonna be a beast.
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