Fellow Ford Friends,

Hello and good morning from the inland northwest! When lastI was here I was taking on the task of replacing my engine (https://www.ranger-forums.com/dohc-2...change-150363/). Thanks to your advice and guidance I was ableto complete the task, but ended up with a hard start and erratic idle problem.At my wits end, I tossed in the towel, and drove it to a mechanic my co-worker advised.THIS is where my irritation morphed into grounds for a drinking problem. Mechanicinformed me the installation looks good, but the bolt holding the harmonic balancerwas loose, and after informing him of my ignorance to what that was, he advisedI return it to where I got the engine so they could fix the timing and dealwith a possible bent valve. Additionally, there is an odd sound coming from thebellhousing which is most likely the flywheel. The mechanic (having worked withthe yard I got the engine from often), towed it to their facility claiming tohave done no work to the inside of the engine as it would void the warranty.
Now, I get a call from the lead tech at the yard who informsme of some concerns. First, the truck has 0 compression, and there is no way Idrove it anywhere. Second, the mechanic I took it to originally seems to havemessed with the truck, and they are not sure what is wrong. He said $300 and hecould fix the timing (apparently a 5+ hour job for a 2003 2.3l 4C), and wouldcall me back. 2 hours later, I am called and informed there is a bent valve,and there is no point in finishing the job as the engine is dead and will notrun. I schedule a meeting at the Yard and bring a recording device.
While I am at the yard, they show me my truck (the radiatorremoved along with the front and plastic top of the engine). Right off, theyexplain this engine is ‘special’ and requires a set of expensive specialtytools to put into time. The installation work I did LOOKS FINE, but there is NOpressure so the truck could not run. Additionally, there is an odd sound comingfrom the bellhousing which is most likely the flywheel. They show me the truck’sthird valve has been bent, and the act of doing so would have stopped the truckinstantly; preventing further drivability. They conclude this was done when mymechanic attempted to time the engine w/o the knowledge or tools required. Thisis what voids the warranty and I “sadly, ended up on the wrong side of a baddeal” because trying to peruse litigation is a bad idea as it is hard to prove negligencein court.
After heavy drinking and thought over the weekend, Ireturned to the original mechanic, recording device in hand. After beinginformed I was recording, he promptly recounted the work he had done: Found aloose ground wire, fired it up and noticed the rough start (‘sounding like a dieselengine’) and an idle that would sound OK and then sputter and die. Reachingdown, he found the bolt to the idler pulley at the bottom of the front of theengine(which holds the harmonic balancer in place for the timing), was fingertight (supposed to be 130 foot pounds). At this point he did some research,called a specialist, and then advised I return it. When he did so on my behalf,he informed the staff of what was found, fired it up to show them, and thenwent on his way. Hearing that they question his work, he advised I have theYard put the engine back in time, and prove it would not run with a single bentvalve, as their claim is a load of *insert curse here*!
SO, now well over my head and possibly out$2500, BECAUSE I took it to a mechanic, I come to you all. What is BS here? AmI being sabotaged? I know I did NOT adjust that harmonic balancer bolt thing,and both agencies are saying it is not on me. My current idea is to hire aTHIRD mechanic, and have all three agencies sit down and figure out who goofed,and how to fix it. I would like to know any input here, and am willing tosupply transcripts of both recordings to help clarify who said what. Help meRanger-Forums, you are my only hope…

 

https://www.ranger-forums.com/dohc-2...e-help-151268/
Here's another guy on this forum with the same problem.
Post 7 has a video on it. Read the whole thread though.
If you pay a mechanic to fix it, it will be less expensive to buy the special tools needed for the job.
Special tools being, the locking plate to lock up the cam shafts, the bolt to lock up the crank and a big torque wrench.

This assumes that your valves are not already bent, it's hard to tell from you post if they are presently bent or it has been fixed in that regard.

If one or any of them are bent, you'll have to remove the head and have that fixed of course.

Personally I wouldn't waste time trying to find who buggered things up, no one is going to admit to anything and even if they did, who would want any of theses idiot mechanics that don't appear to know what they're doing, going back in there and fixing it _ they're probably not capable of it any way.

Learn how to do it your self, it's not hard to do with the right tools.

If you do hire a mechanic, have him show you the tools that are needed, at least then you will know he took the time to spend the cash to do th job right.

 

Jeff,


Thank you kindly for your quick and helpful response. After reading the post you provided, I am able to better understand what is going on. It seems to me the Engine had a timing issue to begin with, and then the mechanic (not knowing much about this 'new' engine) mucked with it, which caused it to no longer be under warranty.


As it stands now, a single valve is obviously (visibly) bent. This was made clear to me by the Scrap Yard's staff when they were looking at the engine. Your advice for me to take on the rebuild job frightens and saddens me, however. I learned during the installation of the engine that I am not a fan of large automotive jobs, and the bill for the parts I would need (not including tools) is what another $400? $800? The Yard quoted $1000ish for parts alone... I am not sure what parts from my original engine (2007 w/ a seized piston) can be repurposed, but that is an option... What infuriates me the most is the idea that I spent either $1400 on an engine that was bad to begin with, or $250 on a mechanic to break said engine.


Truly, I appreciate your advice on my current situation, and I know your view to be a viable option. My emotions are tangled with my financial limitations, and the looming demise of our only working vehicle (wife's 1997 explorer), which further complicates an already complicated situation.

 

MATO'8754 - Massive Absolute Timing Tool Family - Massive Hardcore Racing Performance Parts - Massive Speed System - Ford Focus Specialists

Here's just one example, I'm sure there are others _ only 30.00 bucks.
And a descent torque wrench.

Here's a cheap one.


Here's another from ebay, but it has more bits in it for other engines.

MSS Cam Timing Chain Alignment Tool Set Duratec MZR 2.0 2.3 2.5 Turbo DISI VCT | eBay

Can't help you with the fear factor, but that video does cover the procedure quite well.
When the head is removed, it's up to the machine shop to fix the valve.
They will disassemble and give it the once over.
Pressure test for coolant leaks _ cracks _ check and replace worn guides and valves.
It will be handed back to you, ready to bolt on to the block.

You need a reputable machine shop though.

 

If you're not comfortable doing this, then maybe some friends can help with it.
It's just about following procedure and making sure all the steps are done; and done correctly.

Personally I would find doing a valve/timing job much easier then changing out the whole engine.

 

I was watching that video again.
There's quite a procedure to doing this, plus dealing with the bent valve.

I don't want to talk you into something that you're not comfortable with.

Not sure where to go from here...

 

Sorry for your troubles but unfortunately it happens with used engines, there is no warranty regardless of what they say, even in writing.
Because they have a "get out of jail free" card with EVERY used engine they sell, IF a non-register mechanic does the install.
Installation mistake...........VOIDED WARRANTY

So didn't matter where you took it first, the fact you installed it voided the warranty, and no they don't have to say that up front, although it may be in there is the fine print, i.e. "warranty does not cover installation errors, voids warranty"

They were NOT trying to rip you off or scam you, 95% of used engine are fine, but there is only so much you can tell about an engine with a few non-running tests.
As far as "they" are concerned they sold you a good running engine, may not be true but they may think you F'ed up on the install and are now trying to scam them, other side of the coin.

Where is your original engine?
Sounds like a time to cut bait and redo the line.

 

First off let me tell you I am sorry for the aggravation you have been through to this point.

The 2.3 DOHC engine you have is in my opinion a over engineered very expensive disposable BIC lighter.

For the amount you paid for a used engine from a salvage yard you could have spent a few hundred more and purchased a rebuilt engine.

Add this to what you paid other mechanics to work on it, you could have paid for the installation of the rebuilt engine.

I cannot stress this enough, too many people with the help of the internet, and DIY TV shows think they can and should tackle any job on their own.

Many times these people get lucky and things go as planned and everyone is happy.

Other times as you have just learned people should bite the bullet take the pain and expense of paying a professional to do the work while obtaining a warranty for the work being performed.

This would leave these people including yourself to focus on what your good at to make the extra money needed to pay for this work.

I am guessing with the time you have invested there must have been something your good at that could have provided the extra cash to pay to have this job done correctly using rebuilt parts not used parts.

At this point you have been served up a **** sandwich and it seems like you must eat the whole thing.

You can let it consume you with hate, anger, fear and thoughts of revenge.

Or you can take a step back, consider this a expensive life lesson and either pay to have your truck repaired by replacing this engine with a rebuilt engine, then hope and prey all goes well.

Or you can just hit the eject button and find a new or new to you truck or car that doesn't need to be repaired or rebuilt.

If it was me I would not want anything to do with this truck because every time you look at you will remember what happened and it will bring back these negative feelings you are going through right now.

When it comes down to it, you lost money and time which sucks.

But you gained a very important life lesson which should have taught you not everyone is meant to perform major work to vehicles. ( this also applies
to shops and technicians )

For every good repair shop and good technician there are 10 that are under trained, greedy, shady, uncaring hacks.

It takes many years of training both book work and hands on training to become a qualified technician. ( it takes very little to turn them into hacks to avoid at any cost )

This is where the **** sandwich is still there waiting for you to take a bite.

Lets say you go ahead and pay up to have a qualified mechanic install a rebuilt engine and you follow or go along with the mechanics or shops suggestions and findings of other work they may need to do to give you a warranty.

There is still no guarantee that your work will be done as promised, the tech may be disgruntle, lazy , uncaring ,under trained dishonest or all the above.

Anything at all that goes wrong that day and you could end up in the same boat trying to prove your right and they are to blame, yet now you out even more time and money.

It is my opinion life is too short to embrace this stress.

I would hit the eject button and buy another vehicle and move on with your life.

If you feel the need to try and recoup your loss or some of it.

Be polite , calm and simply ask for a refund for each company involved.

Do not get mad when they tell you no, just write down who they are and what they said.

Then go to your local court house and file a civil suit to each company for their part in this mess.

Chances are warranties being voided or not, each one of them will pay up to avoid going to court.

Each company would loose more money than your claim would be compared to them taking the time to go to court.

I say this from personal experience being a former shop owner.

If I ever had to take a single day off from my shop it would cost my shop back in the 1990s thousands of dollars in lost revenue.

I cannot imagine what a long drawn out court case would have cost me.

Which is why I can say most shop owners whom normally do not have a attorney on retainer and know they were wrong to some degree would just pay or settle out of court.

It is your truck and your problem and your decision.

Again I am sorry for the aggravation you have experienced so far.

Hopefully my insight into this will help you take a step back and clearly think out your next decision.

If it were me, I would refuse to take a bite of that **** sandwich, turn the negative into a positive and just buy yourself a new to you vehicle that a happy , caring and qualified technician has looked over for you.

 

Jeff,
Thank you for the continued advice, research, and support!You have shown me another avenue I have available if I am left with the brokentruck. Hearing I have more options is what I needed to help process the failureof my efforts. My original goal when taking this job on in the first place wasto learn how to work on a vehicle and fix my truck. In this endeavor, I feel Ihave indeed learned quite a lot. Thank you for continuing to be a part of thatoriginal goal, and reminding me of its importance.

RonD,
Your continued emotional and technical support is greatlyappreciated! The “void due to improper installation” is exactly what theyclaimed at the yard. They do put all engines (rebuilt or pulled) on a “DINO”(?)to test the engines before selling them. I have the papers showing the resultswith the warranty. This tells me the engine was good when I got it, and itstarting up gives me the impression I did the install right (along with both mymechanic and the yard saying I did). However, by not being a certified mechanicI may not have a case on the matter. If I am left without a better option thanlitigation, I will be sure to take your advice into account. Thank you forhelping me understand my situation better.

EaOutlaw,
Indeed, your words offered me the right frame of mind tore-assess my situation. When I first wanted to do this job it was to learn howto work on/ understand how cars work. During my adult life I have done businesswith 5 certified mechanics (not to include this situation), but in one way oranother, they overpriced, incorrectly diagnosed, or simply failed to fix theproblems I presented. All my friends and family recommended I work on my ownrig, and fellow Ranger owners encouraged with examples of how easy this rig isto work on. So, with no reputable mechanic available and a stable supportnetwork, I took on the job. I do not regret my decision, though I am saddenedby the lackluster result. If it turns out this mechanic turns out to be number6, I am yet again without a reliable and honest mechanic that I am able to makemoney and then pay for. Do I go out and pay to play ‘mechanic roulette’ andhope for the best, or do I continue this venture and pray my mistakes are nottoo costly? Both options are stressful, but I will need to decide if I wish topay for lessons or for a reliable specialist. Litigation and the encountersleading to it are within my wheelhouse, as criminal law is what I studied ratherthan automotive mechanics. Your first-hand insight gives me a great bit ofinsight into the perception of mechanics that I had not yet considered. Nomatter the outcome, I am made wiser by your testimony, and for that I am grateful.Thank you for offering me a much-needed reality check to properly andanalytically assess my situation.

All,
I cannot express enough gratitude to the helpful words youall have offered. Not often do I allow emotions to override logic, but when Ido it is comforting to know I have support. Though I am not told what I want tohear, I am given the information I need. It is all too easy to simply pass by a cry forhelp and scroll on in search of a more pleasant post, but you all decided tostop and offer up some of your valuable time. My non-mechanic friends advise Icontinue to fight, while all with experience in this field advise to cut mylosses and move on. Having evaluated my options I have come to the followingplan: I have scheduled a meeting between the salvage yard team, my originalmechanic (I have offered to pay for his time), and myself. In this meeting Iintend to learn EXACTLY what is wrong, and hopefully where in the process itwent wrong. From there it can go several ways, but stressing over suchpreconceptions is foolish at this point. Whatever happens will be posted here,because I truly value all of the support and insight this community has tooffer. Thank you again, and I hope I have good news when I return.

 

I have to comment on EaOutlaw's "throw away" comment on this engine.
I pretty much agree with this, but only because the way the valve train is set up.
There is no woodruff key on the crank and no keys on the sprocket gears on the cams.

Just a whole lot of torque to keep things in place _ what were they thinking !?
It was almost designed to fail and bend the valves.

 

Where is your old engine?

 

When my engine blew , I was going to go the junkyard route and thought better of it . I talked to my mechanic and he said I could get a brand new motor (Jaspers) with a warranty . The motor is yet to be put in , all on me , but the reason I went the new route is very reasons youre talking about . Hope it works out for you .

 

It was designed to fail once a untrained mechanic touched the crankshaft bolt.

This would normally lead you back to the dealer for a new engine or new vehicle, win win for Ford.

In my opinion there could be no other reason Ford decided to use a friction washer instead of a keyed Crankshaft.

Then they only mentioned this new design in a TSB well after their own mechanics and technicians trashed enough engines during warranty repairs.

The reason I called the 2.3 DOHC a throw away engine is because how much it can cost to rebuild this engine and do the work properly and the lack of parts still available from Ford.

The problem is many of the parts that you would want to buy from Ford are either too expensive or no longer available.

On my 2002 I suspect I have a rod bearing noise or timing chain noise I believe it to be timing chain related.

Either way with the mileage a good rebuild is in order.

At minimum this would mean a engine gasket set, new valve cover grommets, complete timing chain set, front timing cover, harmonic balancer,
crankshaft bolt and friction washer, oil pump, rod and main bearings, freeze plugs,rings, head bolts etc not to mention possible hard parts like pistons, rods, crankshaft, camshafts, valves, valve guides.

Many of these parts if still available from Ford would be bend over and grab your ankles expensive. yet Ford does not even provide many of these parts any longer.

For example the normally inexpensive valve cover grommets that do wear out and cause leaks cannot be purchased. when you could purchase them
they came with the entire bolt assembly at over 25 bucks per bolt.

This leaves us to have to try and source parts from the aftermarket, many aftermarket suppliers I wouldn't put their parts on a riding lawn mower let alone a very expensive engine.

Sure for each thing you cannot find or source their is always a solution yet this leaves the person whom is working on the engine to become an expert on this engine.

No one can become an expert from information found on this forum or YouTube, without proper formal training.

But information that is available online can make anyone knowledgeable enough to know what to look for in a expert and when a expert is needed.

They not only have to be an expert they have to be caring enough to do the right thing every time. They also must have the correct tools for the job.

This means if you rebuild your engine or have it rebuilt You have to make sure all these key parts are replaced, and trust they were done if a second party does the work for you.

If you buy a rebuilt engine you have to trust they did the right thing and knew enough to replace these key parts and did a good job doing so.

I have rebuilt many engines and trust my work more than I would anyone even at Ford.

Even if my back and neck would allow me to rebuild my engine.

I wouldn't do it because I couldn't afford to waste the money on a truck that financially is not worth a fraction of what it would cost me to save it.

Ford does not want you to keep your truck forever, they are trying to force us to buy new vehicles to give them a healthy bottom line.

After nearly going out of business who could blame them for this new business model.

With all this in mind added to the cost of normal maintenance items that can be wrong with your truck once you need a new engine it turns your entire truck into a disposable BIC lighter.

Lets face it we are in a disposable society, where nearly anything we own from our clothes, vehicles, electronics appliances etc are designed and marketed to be tossed out and buy new well before these items should be replaced.

This attitude has a terrible impact on the environment and natural resources.

Yet striving to keep up with the disposable items in our lives keeps many of us in debt and working the jobs most of us hate and do only what we have to to keep from getting fired.

The stress from this disposable society we are in have many people on edge and disgruntle, You can see it in everyday life just try and drive to work without experiencing or witnessing some soft or road rage.

Heck many times people on this forum become victim to some sort of unprovoked anger or rage by asking a simple question on how to operate a rear view mirror.

It is my opinion that as a Country we are a sick nation in a sick perverse world that is not destined to greatness or longevity we are destined to our own personal hell that we create and allow.

 

Personally I think that engine was designed that way for ease on the assembly line.
The head would have been built up and the cam shaft locking bar would have been in place ready for the block (each head would have had one)
The block would have had that special bolt to lock the crank in place on a assembly of the bottom end.
The two simply would have been mated and the valve gears would have been put in place, cover, harmonic dampener etc. and the whole thing torqued to spec (not necessarily in that order, but you get my point).

How much of that engine was assembled by robots, maybe the valve train was designed for the specific purpose ?
Of course this is all just theory.

I also believe that the internal valve clearance on this particular engine is very small to gain as much horse power as possible.
Very little room for error when timing the valves, the method they use with no keys would allow them to get it exactly right each time.
All they would have to do is lock things up and torque to spec.

No worrying about things moving when they tension the timing chain.

 

All,

Hello and good morning! Yesterday my mechanic, the salvage yard team, and I met to discuss my truck. The meeting was amusing from my point of view, as I got to watch a 30 year licensed mechanic explain to a man in his mid-30’s how my engine worked after being accused of not understanding the idiosyncrasies of this specific model. The end result is the yard will refund the engine if I pull it and return it on with the pallet (they do not have another engine to swap it with), and I finally have a mechanic who is honest, knowledgeable, and willing to explain at a level I can understand. The plan is to have the truck towed back to my place, pull the engine myself (which I am quite comfortable doing), and return it for the down payment on another vehicle. I will then button up the truck for the winter, and treat it as a fun project rather than a necessity for everyday life. Being as I do have the original 07 engine that came with the truck (died due to a seized piston afteran oil pump fail) I know I have many options, and between this community and my mechanic I know I can come up with a less stressful and more rewarding result.

The decision to rebuild the original engine, buy one new/refurbished, retrofit a different type of engine/transmission all together, or donate the remains to charity, is something I think I’ll shelve for another day. Right now, I have adjusted my focus to ensuring my wife and I have a safe and functioning form of transportation for the winter. Once my business regarding this engine is concluded, I plan on submitting several positive reviews for both the salvage yard staff and my mechanic, as I feel both agencies knowledgably and professionally helped me through this ‘poop pastry’ of a situation. In conclusion, I have learned quite a lot about working on cars, buying parts, and what work I am willing to pay to have done. All of the positive that has come from this experience is thanks to this community, with your insight, advice, and support. I truly thank you all for taking the time out of your lives to help me learn and grow in this endeavor. I look forward to returning here again soon when I restart the revival of my fine, Ford fabricated, friend.

 

Reads like a good plan

Most knowledge is learned by failure not success, and lessons can get expensive, look at college tuition, lol.

Any professional that can explain the inter workings of their profession in laymans terms is the smartest in that field, they KNOW how it works.
So yes, you have a good mechanic.

Thanks for the update

 

Good luck and yes thanks for the update.