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  #26  
Old 05-24-2011
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Well I find this thread amazing... First off I would like to say I am not perfect, I really don't think anybody on here is. I make mistakes....but this is just plain insulting. I know a lot of people on here don't know me personally but there are a number that do. I am confident anybody that knows me knows that I am not a vindictive person(except Brian). I am not a professional paint shop with a paint booth, perfect lighting and state of the art equipment, I usually only paint my vehicles and did this job for Brian as a favor and to make a little extra money. As far as the cost goes that is not as important as the fact that he offered me an amount, I didn't give him a bid or estimate on the job. I have painted trucks for 2 other people on here, Auto(another Brian) and RangerExtreme(Scott) I'm sure they could vouch for me and my abilities. With that said lets look a little closer at the situation.

When Brain brought the truck up here it did not run. There was no dash installed, there was no steering column, no interior wiring, no interior fuse box(in the 04 location) no interior, no brakes, no front end and I'm probably forgetting other things. Basically I had a 99 body bolted to a 04 frame with some of the wiring done. The deal was for me to help him get it running and paint it Harvest Gold (I'm not sure if he thought that quart of Gold he brought would paint a whole truck, including the inside of the bed. Keep in mind he had already got most of the interior parts to convert it from tan to gray.
I got the truck running right away and then started on sorting out the mixture of different year interior wiring. This took some time and is when I started on extra work that wasn't discussed. Such as an overhead console, making the wrong year door wiring work running extra wires to the map light dome light and cargo lights. I didn't think it was a big deal just a little more time...no problem.

So next we can talk paint. When I saw the pictures he sent me it looked like a pretty clean truck with a couple little dings... no problem right a little body work and a pretty "easy" paint job. Well then I discovered rust holes in 8 different spots I had to patch and fiberglass and do bondo work on to make look good. I still didn't say hey Brian this is a lot more work than we bargained for, I figured ok I'll just do it ...no problem. Next Brian say's I think I want to change the color to blue(originally Sonic Blue, I suggested the Vista Blue. Do you think I said oh ok for x amount I can do a color change? Nope I said no problem.

Now Brian brought the truck up to me on March 6. On April 7th I received an email that he was concerned about the lack of progress. Granted a month had gone by but I had been working on it almost constantly(I do have a full time day job, and he knew it) I didn't say anything but it kind of upset me because I had been busting a** on his truck and was also really busy at work. I am only 1 guy here not a paint shop. Ok since the pressure was on to get it done I worked even faster, I made a couple minor mistakes...vindictive...No!

Now with all that said lets address his picture issues. I am not too fat headed to admit I made a mistake when masking bot back doors(on the inside) How could that be vindictive? I don't get it...
Ok I put the paint in the gun and start painting and when I open the fuel door I realize I forgot to mask the cap...no problem I'll just swap it out...I forgot to, I probably have 6 of them laying around...vindictive?...I don't get it. Paint on an inner fender...I never mask inner fenders, I usually just touch them up with black....oops I forgot...vindictive...nope I don't get it. Paint peeling on the tailgate...ok maybe it was a little thin, maybe I did it on purpose...but I don't think so.

Now with all that told think about the extras he added on me. Overhead console, color change, bedliner, step bars, aftermarket speakers, brakes, installing complete interior including headliner, and finishing the truck so he could fly up here and drive it home to Kentucky with no problems(I think its about a 6 hr drive) Keep in mind I still did the job for the original price he offered me without charging any extra. Oh yeah the gold paint is sitting down in the garage, I kept that to be vindictive too. Keep in mind I did not start a thread about how Brian didn't pay me, I just stated I was selling a cap to get the money back I was owed...
Now to refresh your memory before anybody passes judgement either way go look at the original thread...
https://www.ranger-forums.com/project-logs-82/99-04-brians-project-truck-120683/
  #27  
Old 05-24-2011
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Just one other note...
Chris and the other Brian was both here the day he picked it up, he didn't have any complints or I could have fixed them at the time.
  #28  
Old 05-24-2011
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Word. We all make mistakes, but you did so much more stuff that he conveniently forgot to mention.
You sir, are the man, i dunno if anyone has ever said that to you before, but i think it needs to be said.
  #29  
Old 05-24-2011
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Glad too see you clear it up john, i figured there was more too the story, and if he didnt say anything before driving off with the truck, its his fault.
  #30  
Old 05-24-2011
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He saw the doors before he left, he could have said can we spray a little paint on them...it wouldn't have been a problem. The one thing he blamed me for I didn't do was the carpet, I didn't burn his carpet or trim it to hide it but I do smoke.
  #31  
Old 05-24-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvcat View Post
Well I find this thread amazing... First off I would like to say I am not perfect, I really don't think anybody on here is. I make mistakes....but this is just plain insulting. I know a lot of people on here don't know me personally but there are a number that do. I am confident anybody that knows me knows that I am not a vindictive person(except Brian). I am not a professional paint shop with a paint booth, perfect lighting and state of the art equipment, I usually only paint my vehicles and did this job for Brian as a favor and to make a little extra money. As far as the cost goes that is not as important as the fact that he offered me an amount, I didn't give him a bid or estimate on the job. I have painted trucks for 2 other people on here, Auto(another Brian) and RangerExtreme(Scott) I'm sure they could vouch for me and my abilities. With that said lets look a little closer at the situation.

When Brain brought the truck up here it did not run. There was no dash installed, there was no steering column, no interior wiring, no interior fuse box(in the 04 location) no interior, no brakes, no front end and I'm probably forgetting other things. Basically I had a 99 body bolted to a 04 frame with some of the wiring done. The deal was for me to help him get it running and paint it Harvest Gold (I'm not sure if he thought that quart of Gold he brought would paint a whole truck, including the inside of the bed. Keep in mind he had already got most of the interior parts to convert it from tan to gray.
I got the truck running right away and then started on sorting out the mixture of different year interior wiring. This took some time and is when I started on extra work that wasn't discussed. Such as an overhead console, making the wrong year door wiring work running extra wires to the map light dome light and cargo lights. I didn't think it was a big deal just a little more time...no problem.

So next we can talk paint. When I saw the pictures he sent me it looked like a pretty clean truck with a couple little dings... no problem right a little body work and a pretty "easy" paint job. Well then I discovered rust holes in 8 different spots I had to patch and fiberglass and do bondo work on to make look good. I still didn't say hey Brian this is a lot more work than we bargained for, I figured ok I'll just do it ...no problem. Next Brian say's I think I want to change the color to blue(originally Sonic Blue, I suggested the Vista Blue. Do you think I said oh ok for x amount I can do a color change? Nope I said no problem.

Now Brian brought the truck up to me on March 6. On April 7th I received an email that he was concerned about the lack of progress. Granted a month had gone by but I had been working on it almost constantly(I do have a full time day job, and he knew it) I didn't say anything but it kind of upset me because I had been busting a** on his truck and was also really busy at work. I am only 1 guy here not a paint shop. Ok since the pressure was on to get it done I worked even faster, I made a couple minor mistakes...vindictive...No!

Now with all that said lets address his picture issues. I am not too fat headed to admit I made a mistake when masking bot back doors(on the inside) How could that be vindictive? I don't get it...
Ok I put the paint in the gun and start painting and when I open the fuel door I realize I forgot to mask the cap...no problem I'll just swap it out...I forgot to, I probably have 6 of them laying around...vindictive?...I don't get it. Paint on an inner fender...I never mask inner fenders, I usually just touch them up with black....oops I forgot...vindictive...nope I don't get it. Paint peeling on the tailgate...ok maybe it was a little thin, maybe I did it on purpose...but I don't think so.

Now with all that told think about the extras he added on me. Overhead console, color change, bedliner, step bars, aftermarket speakers, brakes, installing complete interior including headliner, and finishing the truck so he could fly up here and drive it home to Kentucky with no problems(I think its about a 6 hr drive) Keep in mind I still did the job for the original price he offered me without charging any extra. Oh yeah the gold paint is sitting down in the garage, I kept that to be vindictive too. Keep in mind I did not start a thread about how Brian didn't pay me, I just stated I was selling a cap to get the money back I was owed...
Now to refresh your memory before anybody passes judgement either way go look at the original thread...
https://www.ranger-forums.com/showthread.php?t=120683
Okay I read the WHOLE Build thread and Brian seemed very pleased after he took delivery of the Truck.....soooooo I think this thread was Vindictive!
  #32  
Old 05-24-2011
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whether or not brian could have said something or not is irrelevant. The pictures show John cutting corners multiple times.

Without knowing a price for the work it's unfair to pass judgement on it, but the flaws are undeniable. And you know how it is when you get something new, it's great and you love it but then you start noticing the little things.

I'm sure John is a nice guy and I know Brian is a nice guy. I don't think it's fair to side up against Brian for bringing up these issues now (in response to some things wvcat said in his for sale thread) and we still aren't seeing the full story so I don't get why everyone is acting like it's so cut and dry.
  #33  
Old 05-24-2011
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In my opinion, I have seen your work many times John and I think its outstanding. Sometimes, from what I have dealt with at work, People that dont pay for jobs, can create issues, or point out minor problems in order to gain sympathy and have people come out and say I wont pay for that either. I think being that you let him take the truck prior to payment speaks alot about you. To the OP, If the cost was 150 to paint the truck, I myself would accept blemishes for that price. It cost me that much to just get my rear bumper painted. I hope you and John can speak to one another civilly and maybe work this out...IN PRIVATE, from here on out.
  #34  
Old 05-24-2011
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Originally Posted by SteelDirigible View Post
whether or not brian could have said something or not is irrelevant. The pictures show John cutting corners multiple times.
First of all no its not irrelevant. Second, cutting corners, yes , but it was never said that he wouldnt do that either, Brian ASKED john too do this, so really, too me that means john can do it how ever he pleases.. But i would have inspected the drive before i made the haul back to where ever the **** he lives!
  #35  
Old 05-24-2011
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I think it's a real shame this has all spilled off onto the forum. Regardless of Brians issues with the finished product, at the end of day he never paid the $250 for the labor anyway therefore he doesn't have any right to complain! That's like going into McDonalds and complaining that your BigMac has pickles even though you never ordered a BigMac lol.

If I ever end up buying a bed for my truck to replace my rusted out one I was planning on asking John to paint it for me if it's not toreador red. Just the one time I've met John and having seen the work he has done on 2 of his Rangers in person I would trust him 100% to do a good job on any project. He's defiantly no paint expert but for a guy in his garage he is one of the best.

I think John made human errors and was rushed through a project that should have been carefully executed with a reasonable time frame. For a full vehicle restoration (wiring, interior, and exterior) for one guy part-time, a month is laughable. Sounds to me like 3 months would have seemed more appropriate.

JUST SO EVERY IS CLEAR THE COST OF LABOR WAS $250. COST OF PAINT WAS $150.
  #36  
Old 05-24-2011
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Originally Posted by Masteratarms93 View Post
I think it's a real shame this has all spilled off onto the forum. Regardless of Brians issues with the finished product, at the end of day he never paid the $250 for the labor anyway therefore he doesn't have any right to complain! That's like going into McDonalds and complaining that your BigMac has pickles even though you never ordered a BigMac lol.

If I ever end up buying a bed for my truck to replace my rusted out one I was planning on asking John to paint it for me if it's not toreador red. Just the one time I've met John and having seen the work he has done on 2 of his Rangers in person I would trust him 100% to do a good job on any project. He's defiantly no paint expert but for a guy in his garage he is one of the best.

I think John made human errors and was rushed through a project that should have been carefully executed with a reasonable time frame. For a full vehicle restoration (wiring, interior, and exterior) for one guy part-time, a month is laughable. Sounds to me like 3 months would have seemed more appropriate.

JUST SO EVERY IS CLEAR THE COST OF LABOR WAS $250. COST OF PAINT WAS $150.
Well said man! But are you sure they wanted those prices out there on the forum?
  #37  
Old 05-24-2011
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i also remember in that for sale thread that john asked if he wanted the paint touched up and brian said no.

to fix the tailgate paint issue, get a liner. to fix the gas cap issue, get a new one or if john hasn't been nice enough, see if he'll send one to you. i'm sure he can send it with the harvest gold.

as for the wheel wells, seal it with black spray bomb or something else.

i agree that there are some things to be upset about but for the most part it's minor things. he even tried to make it right and you denied that claim.

i guess both can chalk it up to experience.

i had my bedside painted. cost $300. he masked off the wheel but you can see under on the splash guard has over spray. there is also some run right under my taillight. it doesn't bother so i didn't make an issue.

i also asked when it was safe to wash and put a coat of wax on it.
  #38  
Old 05-24-2011
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Well said man! But are you sure they wanted those prices out there on the forum?
How do you think I got them? This was all discussed in the bed cap thread in the classifieds.
  #39  
Old 05-24-2011
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I would like to see the thread closed. Both parties got it off their chests, they stated their sides. I would rather not see other members bicker, or have this start an all out forum war.
  #40  
Old 05-24-2011
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First of all I want to clear a couple of things up.

I did not come on this thread or the other thread to bad mouth Brian and cause him any problems, the only reason I posted on this thread was to defend myself. Sure we have differences in opinions but it was never my intention to come on here and complain about Brian.

The only reason I even said anything about the money he owed me was because he was not answering any of my emails or texts. He could have answered one of them and said hey I have a problem...he ignored me.

The money he owed me was not for the total job, it was a balance owed. Regardless of price a deal is a deal...that's my opinion. If I make a deal with someone I keep it. Now I know you guys are dying to know how much the job cost, all I am going to say is it wasn't cheap but also wasn't retail professional paint shop prices either. Keep in mind I worked on this truck almost every evening and every weekend for about 6 weeks....that's a lot of labor.

When we talked about the paint job we even discussed the fact that it may not be a perfect showroom paint job. I agree it's not, but it is also better than a lot of shade tree jobs I have seen. It's pretty glossy everywhere, there is no runs and very little if any dirt in the paint, not to mention the body work is almost undetectable. We never agreed on a show quality paint job.
  #41  
Old 05-24-2011
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You both have expressed your feelings and opinions, but the issues don't concern the forum anyway as the transaction took place off the forum. So please take all further correspondence to e-mail or phone.
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